Discussion:
Enphase data interference
(too old to reply)
William Miller
2012-09-24 23:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Friends:

Just a heads up for those of you installing Enphase systems:

After installing over a dozen systems we came up with a job where we have
been unable to resolve interference issues. The problem is receiving data
from the inverters into the Envoy. We have tried relocating every
component, using multiples of the ferrite beads, various models of X10
filter modules, etc.

Enphase has been trying their best, remotely, to help resolve the problem
but without success. The interference is being caused by an expensive pond
pump (or we would have a new one by now). We are awaiting an AC filter
module from Digi-key. I will let you all know how it turns out.

In the meantime, I have added the following paragraph to my contracts:

Data systems: Some new inverter systems transmit data over your
power lines. On rare occasion interference from your appliances will occur
that block this data transmission. We can resolve these problems but there
may be extra charge for our time and materials.

My profit from this job has evaporated. I am writing this because I don't
want to see any of you in this situation unknowingly.

More later,

William Miller

Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: william at millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
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Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
2012-09-25 21:28:47 UTC
Permalink
Hello William,

Since you have identified the cause, look to filtering the RFI at the source, it will be easier than trying to keep it out of your Envoy. I would start with AC line capacitors. Solder a 0.1uF ceramic cap from leg~leg and leg~ground as close to the motor as you can, keeping leads short. Do the same at the AC input and output to the motor controller if it has one. Make sure the motor frame has a good ground. If possible, make sure that your PV system, monitor and the pond motor are at the same ground potential.

Note: If a line voltage surge occurs, these caps will likely burn or explode (small scale) so, with this in mind, be aware of placement.

I can tell you from many years experience as an amateur radio weak signal operator, detection and reducing RFI issues are a mix of science and art. You may want to contact your local Ham Radio club and see if they can recommend someone that is willing to help. Good luck!

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:47 PM, William Miller wrote:

Friends:

Just a heads up for those of you installing Enphase systems:

After installing over a dozen systems we came up with a job where we have been unable to resolve interference issues. The problem is receiving data from the inverters into the Envoy. We have tried relocating every component, using multiples of the ferrite beads, various models of X10 filter modules, etc.

Enphase has been trying their best, remotely, to help resolve the problem but without success. The interference is being caused by an expensive pond pump (or we would have a new one by now). We are awaiting an AC filter module from Digi-key. I will let you all know how it turns out.

In the meantime, I have added the following paragraph to my contracts:

Data systems: Some new inverter systems transmit data over your power lines. On rare occasion interference from your appliances will occur that block this data transmission. We can resolve these problems but there may be extra charge for our time and materials.

My profit from this job has evaporated. I am writing this because I don't want to see any of you in this situation unknowingly.

More later,

William Miller
Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: william at millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

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William Miller
2012-09-25 21:33:34 UTC
Permalink
Larry:

Thanks very much. I am gong to do what you recommend. By the way, the
interference is said to be at about 144kHz. Do these cap values seem to be
relevant at that frequency?

WM
Post by Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
Hello William,
Since you have identified the cause, look to filtering the RFI at the
source, it will be easier than trying to keep it out of your Envoy. I
would start with AC line capacitors. Solder a 0.1uF ceramic cap from
leg~leg and leg~ground as close to the motor as you can, keeping leads
short. Do the same at the AC input and output to the motor controller if
it has one. Make sure the motor frame has a good ground. If possible, make
sure that your PV system, monitor and the pond motor are at the same
ground potential.
Note: If a line voltage surge occurs, these caps will likely burn or
explode (small scale) so, with this in mind, be aware of placement.
I can tell you from many years experience as an amateur radio weak signal
operator, detection and reducing RFI issues are a mix of science and art.
You may want to contact your local Ham Radio club and see if they can
recommend someone that is willing to help. Good luck!
Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
After installing over a dozen systems we came up with a job where we have
been unable to resolve interference issues. The problem is receiving data
from the inverters into the Envoy. We have tried relocating every
component, using multiples of the ferrite beads, various models of X10
filter modules, etc.
Enphase has been trying their best, remotely, to help resolve the problem
but without success. The interference is being caused by an expensive
pond pump (or we would have a new one by now). We are awaiting an AC
filter module from Digi-key. I will let you all know how it turns out.
Data systems: Some new inverter systems transmit data over your
power lines. On rare occasion interference from your appliances will
occur that block this data transmission. We can resolve these problems
but there may be extra charge for our time and materials.
My profit from this job has evaporated. I am writing this because I don't
want to see any of you in this situation unknowingly.
More later,
William Miller
Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: <mailto:william at millersolar.com>william at millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine
<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
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Internal Virus Database is out of date.
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Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/5272 - Release Date: 09/16/12
18:34:00
Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: william at millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
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Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
2012-09-26 01:13:11 UTC
Permalink
Yes, this type of common and normal mode filtering will actually perform better as frequency increases due to decreased impedance of the capacitor. 144 kHz is actually low and most likely radiating through the AC mains. If this is so, it is good news as its generally easier to filter. Above 30 mHz or so you can expect the RFI to be radiated and interference is received like a radio station signal.

See attached picture for more clarity on cap installation.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


On Sep 25, 2012, at 3:33 PM, William Miller wrote:

Larry:

Thanks very much. I am gong to do what you recommend. By the way, the interference is said to be at about 144kHz. Do these cap values seem to be relevant at that frequency?

WM
Post by Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
Hello William,
Since you have identified the cause, look to filtering the RFI at the source, it will be easier than trying to keep it out of your Envoy. I would start with AC line capacitors. Solder a 0.1uF ceramic cap from leg~leg and leg~ground as close to the motor as you can, keeping leads short. Do the same at the AC input and output to the motor controller if it has one. Make sure the motor frame has a good ground. If possible, make sure that your PV system, monitor and the pond motor are at the same ground potential.
Note: If a line voltage surge occurs, these caps will likely burn or explode (small scale) so, with this in mind, be aware of placement.
I can tell you from many years experience as an amateur radio weak signal operator, detection and reducing RFI issues are a mix of science and art. You may want to contact your local Ham Radio club and see if they can recommend someone that is willing to help. Good luck!
Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
After installing over a dozen systems we came up with a job where we have been unable to resolve interference issues. The problem is receiving data from the inverters into the Envoy. We have tried relocating every component, using multiples of the ferrite beads, various models of X10 filter modules, etc.
Enphase has been trying their best, remotely, to help resolve the problem but without success. The interference is being caused by an expensive pond pump (or we would have a new one by now). We are awaiting an AC filter module from Digi-key. I will let you all know how it turns out.
Data systems: Some new inverter systems transmit data over your power lines. On rare occasion interference from your appliances will occur that block this data transmission. We can resolve these problems but there may be extra charge for our time and materials.
My profit from this job has evaporated. I am writing this because I don't want to see any of you in this situation unknowingly.
More later,
William Miller
Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: william at millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
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Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
2012-09-26 01:13:11 UTC
Permalink
Yes, this type of common and normal mode filtering will actually perform better as frequency increases due to decreased impedance of the capacitor. 144 kHz is actually low and most likely radiating through the AC mains. If this is so, it is good news as its generally easier to filter. Above 30 mHz or so you can expect the RFI to be radiated and interference is received like a radio station signal.

See attached picture for more clarity on cap installation.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


On Sep 25, 2012, at 3:33 PM, William Miller wrote:

Larry:

Thanks very much. I am gong to do what you recommend. By the way, the interference is said to be at about 144kHz. Do these cap values seem to be relevant at that frequency?

WM
Post by Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
Hello William,
Since you have identified the cause, look to filtering the RFI at the source, it will be easier than trying to keep it out of your Envoy. I would start with AC line capacitors. Solder a 0.1uF ceramic cap from leg~leg and leg~ground as close to the motor as you can, keeping leads short. Do the same at the AC input and output to the motor controller if it has one. Make sure the motor frame has a good ground. If possible, make sure that your PV system, monitor and the pond motor are at the same ground potential.
Note: If a line voltage surge occurs, these caps will likely burn or explode (small scale) so, with this in mind, be aware of placement.
I can tell you from many years experience as an amateur radio weak signal operator, detection and reducing RFI issues are a mix of science and art. You may want to contact your local Ham Radio club and see if they can recommend someone that is willing to help. Good luck!
Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
After installing over a dozen systems we came up with a job where we have been unable to resolve interference issues. The problem is receiving data from the inverters into the Envoy. We have tried relocating every component, using multiples of the ferrite beads, various models of X10 filter modules, etc.
Enphase has been trying their best, remotely, to help resolve the problem but without success. The interference is being caused by an expensive pond pump (or we would have a new one by now). We are awaiting an AC filter module from Digi-key. I will let you all know how it turns out.
Data systems: Some new inverter systems transmit data over your power lines. On rare occasion interference from your appliances will occur that block this data transmission. We can resolve these problems but there may be extra charge for our time and materials.
My profit from this job has evaporated. I am writing this because I don't want to see any of you in this situation unknowingly.
More later,
William Miller
Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: william at millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
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William Miller
2012-09-25 21:33:34 UTC
Permalink
Larry:

Thanks very much. I am gong to do what you recommend. By the way, the
interference is said to be at about 144kHz. Do these cap values seem to be
relevant at that frequency?

WM
Post by Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
Hello William,
Since you have identified the cause, look to filtering the RFI at the
source, it will be easier than trying to keep it out of your Envoy. I
would start with AC line capacitors. Solder a 0.1uF ceramic cap from
leg~leg and leg~ground as close to the motor as you can, keeping leads
short. Do the same at the AC input and output to the motor controller if
it has one. Make sure the motor frame has a good ground. If possible, make
sure that your PV system, monitor and the pond motor are at the same
ground potential.
Note: If a line voltage surge occurs, these caps will likely burn or
explode (small scale) so, with this in mind, be aware of placement.
I can tell you from many years experience as an amateur radio weak signal
operator, detection and reducing RFI issues are a mix of science and art.
You may want to contact your local Ham Radio club and see if they can
recommend someone that is willing to help. Good luck!
Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
After installing over a dozen systems we came up with a job where we have
been unable to resolve interference issues. The problem is receiving data
from the inverters into the Envoy. We have tried relocating every
component, using multiples of the ferrite beads, various models of X10
filter modules, etc.
Enphase has been trying their best, remotely, to help resolve the problem
but without success. The interference is being caused by an expensive
pond pump (or we would have a new one by now). We are awaiting an AC
filter module from Digi-key. I will let you all know how it turns out.
Data systems: Some new inverter systems transmit data over your
power lines. On rare occasion interference from your appliances will
occur that block this data transmission. We can resolve these problems
but there may be extra charge for our time and materials.
My profit from this job has evaporated. I am writing this because I don't
want to see any of you in this situation unknowingly.
More later,
William Miller
Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: <mailto:william at millersolar.com>william at millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine
<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
<http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.455 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/5272 - Release Date: 09/16/12
18:34:00
Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: william at millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
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William Miller
2012-09-24 23:47:07 UTC
Permalink
Friends:

Just a heads up for those of you installing Enphase systems:

After installing over a dozen systems we came up with a job where we have
been unable to resolve interference issues. The problem is receiving data
from the inverters into the Envoy. We have tried relocating every
component, using multiples of the ferrite beads, various models of X10
filter modules, etc.

Enphase has been trying their best, remotely, to help resolve the problem
but without success. The interference is being caused by an expensive pond
pump (or we would have a new one by now). We are awaiting an AC filter
module from Digi-key. I will let you all know how it turns out.

In the meantime, I have added the following paragraph to my contracts:

Data systems: Some new inverter systems transmit data over your
power lines. On rare occasion interference from your appliances will occur
that block this data transmission. We can resolve these problems but there
may be extra charge for our time and materials.

My profit from this job has evaporated. I am writing this because I don't
want to see any of you in this situation unknowingly.

More later,

William Miller

Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: william at millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
-------------- next part --------------
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Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
2012-09-25 21:28:47 UTC
Permalink
Hello William,

Since you have identified the cause, look to filtering the RFI at the source, it will be easier than trying to keep it out of your Envoy. I would start with AC line capacitors. Solder a 0.1uF ceramic cap from leg~leg and leg~ground as close to the motor as you can, keeping leads short. Do the same at the AC input and output to the motor controller if it has one. Make sure the motor frame has a good ground. If possible, make sure that your PV system, monitor and the pond motor are at the same ground potential.

Note: If a line voltage surge occurs, these caps will likely burn or explode (small scale) so, with this in mind, be aware of placement.

I can tell you from many years experience as an amateur radio weak signal operator, detection and reducing RFI issues are a mix of science and art. You may want to contact your local Ham Radio club and see if they can recommend someone that is willing to help. Good luck!

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Sep 24, 2012, at 5:47 PM, William Miller wrote:

Friends:

Just a heads up for those of you installing Enphase systems:

After installing over a dozen systems we came up with a job where we have been unable to resolve interference issues. The problem is receiving data from the inverters into the Envoy. We have tried relocating every component, using multiples of the ferrite beads, various models of X10 filter modules, etc.

Enphase has been trying their best, remotely, to help resolve the problem but without success. The interference is being caused by an expensive pond pump (or we would have a new one by now). We are awaiting an AC filter module from Digi-key. I will let you all know how it turns out.

In the meantime, I have added the following paragraph to my contracts:

Data systems: Some new inverter systems transmit data over your power lines. On rare occasion interference from your appliances will occur that block this data transmission. We can resolve these problems but there may be extra charge for our time and materials.

My profit from this job has evaporated. I am writing this because I don't want to see any of you in this situation unknowingly.

More later,

William Miller
Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: william at millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Options & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

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www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org


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