Discussion:
TL inverter with long DC Feeder
(too old to reply)
William Miller
2014-10-06 18:40:02 UTC
Permalink
Wrenches:



We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have
advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I am
realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation gets
more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting
means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment.



I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet
from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt inverters
at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means for the 4
strings at the array, in case of any needed service or excavating.
Preferably I'd like the disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person
(i.e. the gardener).



Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I could
install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse holders. The
new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The gardener needs only
to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out
there?



Thanks,



William





Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
<http://www.millersolar.com/> millersolar.com
805-438-5600



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/2e2084be/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
Benn Kilburn
2014-10-06 18:56:20 UTC
Permalink
William,
No suggestions for what might work, but how would you be sure that the
gardener (or other) would not attempt to open the fuseholders under load?
Perhaps the box could have a padlock on it and the key could be located at
the inverters where they could be shutdown prior to opening the
fuseholders. Of course, directions labeled at both locations.

Benn

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 12:40 PM, William Miller <william at millersolar.com>
Post by William Miller
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have
advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I
am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation
gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and
disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated
equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet
from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt
inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means
for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or
excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable
by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I
could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse
holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The
gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any
better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
--
*Benn Kilburn *
CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
6706 ? 82 Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T6B 0E7
P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
[image: email] <benn at skyfireenergy.com> [image: facebook]
<https://www.facebook.com/SkyFireEnergy> [image: twitter]
<https://twitter.com/SkyFireEnergy> [image: linkedin]
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/283735?trk=tyah&trkInfo=tarId%3A1408655033432%2Ctas%3Askyfire%2Cidx%3A2-2-5>
[image: google] <https://plus.google.com/+SkyFireEnergy/>

[image: SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal]
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/1497a989/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
All Solar, Inc.
2014-10-06 19:13:43 UTC
Permalink
How about the Midnite Solar four pole disconnect?
Can't remember the model number but recently installed one on a two string TL input circuit. They are made for disconnecting both positive and negative.

Jeremy Rodriguez,
President

All Solar, Inc.
1463 M
Penrose Colorado 81240
719-372-3808 office
719-372-3804 fax
www.asolarelectric.com

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
<image002.jpg>
Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/d9f5aaa3/attachment.htm>
Mark Westbrock
2014-10-06 20:41:11 UTC
Permalink
If you don't want to combine strings at the array, then I would use a
Square D HU361 for each string. It is a lot of hardware, but not too
expensive and very straightforward for a lay person to shut off without
risk.

Cheers,

Mark

----
*Mark Westbrock*
Field Manager & Employee-Owner
NM EE98J Journeyman Electrician
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified PV Technical Sales


<http://positiveenergysolar.com/>

Positive Energy, Inc.
510 S. Main St.
Las Cruces, NM 88001
office: 575-524-2030
cell: 575-640-2432
mw at positiveenergysolar.com <westbrock at positiveenergysolar.com>
www.positiveenergysolar.com



<http://www.nabcep.org/installer-locator?state=NM>
<http://www.nabcep.org/installer-locator?state=NM>
<http://www.solarreviews.com/installers/positive-energy-solar/>
<http://www.bcorporation.net/>

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 1:13 PM, All Solar, Inc. <allsolar at scswifi.net>
Post by All Solar, Inc.
How about the Midnite Solar four pole disconnect?
Can't remember the model number but recently installed one on a two string
TL input circuit. They are made for disconnecting both positive and
negative.
Jeremy Rodriguez,
President
All Solar, Inc.
1463 M
Penrose Colorado 81240
719-372-3808 office
719-372-3804 fax
www.asolarelectric.com
Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have
advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I
am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation
gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and
disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated
equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet
from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt
inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means
for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or
excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable
by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I
could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse
holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The
gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any
better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
<image002.jpg>
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/06932833/attachment-0001.htm>
Jerry Shafer
2014-10-06 22:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Any time we do a ground array, at the array location we combine the strings
and have a disconnect and it has come in handy to
On Oct 6, 2014 10:41 AM, "Mark Westbrock" <westbrock at positiveenergysolar.com>
Post by Mark Westbrock
If you don't want to combine strings at the array, then I would use a
Square D HU361 for each string. It is a lot of hardware, but not too
expensive and very straightforward for a lay person to shut off without
risk.
Cheers,
Mark
----
*Mark Westbrock*
Field Manager & Employee-Owner
NM EE98J Journeyman Electrician
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified PV Technical Sales
<http://positiveenergysolar.com/>
Positive Energy, Inc.
510 S. Main St.
Las Cruces, NM 88001
office: 575-524-2030
cell: 575-640-2432
mw at positiveenergysolar.com <westbrock at positiveenergysolar.com>
www.positiveenergysolar.com
<http://www.nabcep.org/installer-locator?state=NM>
<http://www.nabcep.org/installer-locator?state=NM>
<http://www.solarreviews.com/installers/positive-energy-solar/>
<http://www.bcorporation.net/>
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 1:13 PM, All Solar, Inc. <allsolar at scswifi.net>
Post by All Solar, Inc.
How about the Midnite Solar four pole disconnect?
Can't remember the model number but recently installed one on a two
string TL input circuit. They are made for disconnecting both positive and
negative.
Jeremy Rodriguez,
President
All Solar, Inc.
1463 M
Penrose Colorado 81240
719-372-3808 office
719-372-3804 fax
www.asolarelectric.com
Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have
advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I
am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation
gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and
disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated
equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet
from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt
inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means
for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or
excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable
by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I
could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse
holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The
gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any
better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
<image002.jpg>
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/e785c2ce/attachment.htm>
jay peltz
2014-10-06 21:46:07 UTC
Permalink
I do believe the outback and midnite combiners have a lock hole to prevent exactly your concern.
unauthorized access.

jay

peltz power
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
<image002.jpg>
Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/1b81b3e6/attachment.htm>
Jerry Shafer
2014-10-07 02:02:45 UTC
Permalink
As i read the thread you say TL which TL SMA, AE ect. They have defferent
dc input designs
Post by jay peltz
I do believe the outback and midnite combiners have a lock hole to prevent
exactly your concern.
unauthorized access.
jay
peltz power
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have
advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I
am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation
gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and
disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated
equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet
from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt
inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means
for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or
excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable
by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I
could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse
holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The
gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any
better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
<image002.jpg>
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/bc6326db/attachment.htm>
Chris Mason
2014-10-07 03:30:55 UTC
Permalink
I presumed SMA TL series.

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com>
Post by Jerry Shafer
As i read the thread you say TL which TL SMA, AE ect. They have defferent
dc input designs
Post by jay peltz
I do believe the outback and midnite combiners have a lock hole to
prevent exactly your concern.
unauthorized access.
jay
peltz power
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have
advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I
am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation
gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and
disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated
equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet
from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt
inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means
for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or
excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable
by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I
could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse
holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The
gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any
better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
<image002.jpg>
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
--
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer?
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com>
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/1cdcb416/attachment.htm>
William Miller
2014-10-07 04:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Friends:

If only an SMA would work here. But DC volts too low. We are using Solectria PVI5200TLS.

We do not use PV wire. We transition to THWN-2 in conduit immediately.

William

Miller Solar
Post by Chris Mason
I presumed SMA TL series.
As i read the thread you say TL which TL SMA, AE ect. They have defferent dc input designs
Post by jay peltz
I do believe the outback and midnite combiners have a lock hole to prevent exactly your concern.
unauthorized access.
jay
peltz power
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
<image002.jpg>
Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
--
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer?
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician
www.cometsolar.com
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/56b3f137/attachment.htm>
August Goers
2014-10-07 15:03:08 UTC
Permalink
William,



We have bumped into similar dilemmas when needing remote DC disconnects
with TL inverters. I believe the Solectria you are using has two MPPTs?
Ideally, you would keep each string separate to benefit from the dual
trackers ? this would mean four DC disconnects if you went with a standard
product like a Square D HU361RB. If you combine each of the two strings out
at the array(s) then you could get away with two disconnects, one for each
inverter. Neither option is ideal.



Best,



August



Luminalt



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *William Miller
*Sent:* Monday, October 06, 2014 9:01 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



Friends:



If only an SMA would work here. But DC volts too low. We are using
Solectria PVI5200TLS.



We do not use PV wire. We transition to THWN-2 in conduit immediately.



William


Miller Solar


On Oct 6, 2014, at 8:30 PM, Chris Mason <cometenergysystems at gmail.com>
wrote:

I presumed SMA TL series.



On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com>
wrote:

As i read the thread you say TL which TL SMA, AE ect. They have defferent
dc input designs

On Oct 6, 2014 12:21 PM, "jay peltz" <jay at asis.com> wrote:

I do believe the outback and midnite combiners have a lock hole to prevent
exactly your concern.

unauthorized access.



jay



peltz power

On Oct 6, 2014, at 11:40 AM, William Miller wrote:



Wrenches:



We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have
advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I
am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation
gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and
disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated
equipment.



I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet
from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt
inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means
for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or
excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable
by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).



Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I
could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse
holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The
gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any
better ideas out there?



Thanks,



William





<image002.jpg>
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600



_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org




_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org


_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org
--
Chris Mason

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer?

Solar Design Engineer

Generac Generators Industrial technician



www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com>

264.235.5670

869.662.5670

Skype: netconcepts

_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/474dd62b/attachment.htm>
William Miller
2014-10-07 15:27:58 UTC
Permalink
August:

I have been told I can't combine upstream of the inverter.

William

Miller Solar
Post by Benn Kilburn
William,
We have bumped into similar dilemmas when needing remote DC disconnects with TL inverters. I believe the Solectria you are using has two MPPTs? Ideally, you would keep each string separate to benefit from the dual trackers ? this would mean four DC disconnects if you went with a standard product like a Square D HU361RB. If you combine each of the two strings out at the array(s) then you could get away with two disconnects, one for each inverter. Neither option is ideal.
Best,
August
Luminalt
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/31250f9a/attachment.htm>
August Goers
2014-10-07 18:30:00 UTC
Permalink
William,



I see now from the separate post from Michael Kelly of Solectria that
indeed you cannot combine your two strings with this inverter. I think that
leaves you stuck with four separate disconnect switches unless someone on
this list knows of a four pole DC rated disconnect switch. Or, you?ll have
to switch inverters. I have never installed these Solectria inverters so I
don?t know much about them.



Best,



August

Luminalt



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *William Miller
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 07, 2014 8:28 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



August:



I have been told I can't combine upstream of the inverter.



William


Miller Solar


On Oct 7, 2014, at 8:03 AM, August Goers <august at luminalt.com> wrote:

William,



We have bumped into similar dilemmas when needing remote DC disconnects
with TL inverters. I believe the Solectria you are using has two MPPTs?
Ideally, you would keep each string separate to benefit from the dual
trackers ? this would mean four DC disconnects if you went with a standard
product like a Square D HU361RB. If you combine each of the two strings out
at the array(s) then you could get away with two disconnects, one for each
inverter. Neither option is ideal.



Best,



August



Luminalt
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/d356dd9a/attachment.htm>
Ryan Mayfield
2014-10-07 18:40:28 UTC
Permalink
Eaton has a line of disconnects that may fit the bill:



http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Electrical/ProductsandServices/ElectricalDistribution/SwitchesandDisconnects/SolarDisconnects/index.htm#tabs-2



Ryan







From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of August Goers
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:30 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



William,



I see now from the separate post from Michael Kelly of Solectria that indeed you cannot combine your two strings with this inverter. I think that leaves you stuck with four separate disconnect switches unless someone on this list knows of a four pole DC rated disconnect switch. Or, you?ll have to switch inverters. I have never installed these Solectria inverters so I don?t know much about them.



Best,



August

Luminalt



From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 8:28 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



August:



I have been told I can't combine upstream of the inverter.



William


Miller Solar


On Oct 7, 2014, at 8:03 AM, August Goers <august at luminalt.com> wrote:

William,



We have bumped into similar dilemmas when needing remote DC disconnects with TL inverters. I believe the Solectria you are using has two MPPTs? Ideally, you would keep each string separate to benefit from the dual trackers ? this would mean four DC disconnects if you went with a standard product like a Square D HU361RB. If you combine each of the two strings out at the array(s) then you could get away with two disconnects, one for each inverter. Neither option is ideal.



Best,



August



Luminalt





-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/d94e5d13/attachment.htm>
william
2014-10-07 19:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Ryan:



Thanks but the maximum is 3 circuits and we have 4.

william



From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ryan Mayfield
Sent: Tuesday, October 7, 2014 11:40 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



Eaton has a line of disconnects that may fit the bill:



http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/ProductsServices/Electrical/ProductsandServices/ElectricalDistribution/SwitchesandDisconnects/SolarDisconnects/index.htm#tabs-2



Ryan







From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of August Goers
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 11:30 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



William,



I see now from the separate post from Michael Kelly of Solectria that indeed you cannot combine your two strings with this inverter. I think that leaves you stuck with four separate disconnect switches unless someone on this list knows of a four pole DC rated disconnect switch. Or, you?ll have to switch inverters. I have never installed these Solectria inverters so I don?t know much about them.



Best,



August

Luminalt



From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org <mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org> ] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 8:28 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



August:



I have been told I can't combine upstream of the inverter.



William


Miller Solar


On Oct 7, 2014, at 8:03 AM, August Goers <august at luminalt.com <mailto:august at luminalt.com> > wrote:

William,



We have bumped into similar dilemmas when needing remote DC disconnects with TL inverters. I believe the Solectria you are using has two MPPTs? Ideally, you would keep each string separate to benefit from the dual trackers ? this would mean four DC disconnects if you went with a standard product like a Square D HU361RB. If you combine each of the two strings out at the array(s) then you could get away with two disconnects, one for each inverter. Neither option is ideal.



Best,



August



Luminalt





-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/8dceeba2/attachment.htm>
William Miller
2014-10-07 18:41:20 UTC
Permalink
August:

Or an Outback or Midnite combiner without the combs, and a plaque warning to not disconnect under load.

William

Miller Solar
Post by Benn Kilburn
William,
I see now from the separate post from Michael Kelly of Solectria that indeed you cannot combine your two strings with this inverter. I think that leaves you stuck with four separate disconnect switches unless someone on this list knows of a four pole DC rated disconnect switch. Or, you?ll have to switch inverters. I have never installed these Solectria inverters so I don?t know much about them.
Best,
August
Luminalt
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 8:28 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder
I have been told I can't combine upstream of the inverter.
William
Miller Solar
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/e5bae749/attachment.htm>
All Solar, Inc.
2014-10-07 23:27:36 UTC
Permalink
Use the Midnite SOB series.
They have a 4 pole

Jeremy Rodriguez,
President

All Solar, Inc.
1463 M
Penrose Colorado 81240
719-372-3808 office
719-372-3804 fax
www.asolarelectric.com

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
Post by William Miller
Or an Outback or Midnite combiner without the combs, and a plaque warning to not disconnect under load.
William
Miller Solar
Post by Benn Kilburn
William,
I see now from the separate post from Michael Kelly of Solectria that indeed you cannot combine your two strings with this inverter. I think that leaves you stuck with four separate disconnect switches unless someone on this list knows of a four pole DC rated disconnect switch. Or, you?ll have to switch inverters. I have never installed these Solectria inverters so I don?t know much about them.
Best,
August
Luminalt
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 8:28 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder
I have been told I can't combine upstream of the inverter.
William
Miller Solar
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/2b81dc1a/attachment.htm>
Isaac Opalinsky
2014-10-07 20:06:31 UTC
Permalink
William,

What is your string configuration? The SMA TL inverters have a very low operating voltage window, going down to 125 Vdc, but you still have the issue of the disconnect.
[cid:image001.png at 01CFE248.3F9A1920]

Have you looked at ABB?s (PowerOne) TL inverters: http://www.abb.us/product/us/9AAC179447.aspx?country=US? They can be programmed to operate down to 90 Vdc, and they give you the ability to combine upstream and have the 2 MPPT?s operate as one, allowing you to combine outside of the inverter and bring a single set of PV output conductors to the inverter?s DC disconnect:

Isaac Opalinsky | Technical Trainer | SunPower Corporation
Desk 443-569-3476 | Cell 443-277-6286

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 12:01 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder

Friends:

If only an SMA would work here. But DC volts too low. We are using Solectria PVI5200TLS.

We do not use PV wire. We transition to THWN-2 in conduit immediately.

William

Miller Solar

On Oct 6, 2014, at 8:30 PM, Chris Mason <cometenergysystems at gmail.com<mailto:cometenergysystems at gmail.com>> wrote:
I presumed SMA TL series.

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com<mailto:jerrysgarage01 at gmail.com>> wrote:

As i read the thread you say TL which TL SMA, AE ect. They have defferent dc input designs
On Oct 6, 2014 12:21 PM, "jay peltz" <jay at asis.com<mailto:jay at asis.com>> wrote:
I do believe the outback and midnite combiners have a lock hole to prevent exactly your concern.
unauthorized access.

jay

peltz power
On Oct 6, 2014, at 11:40 AM, William Miller wrote:


Wrenches:

We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment.

I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).

Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out there?

Thanks,

William


<image002.jpg>
Lic 773985
millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600<tel:805-438-5600>

_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>


_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>


_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>




--
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer?
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com<http://www.cometenergysystems.com>
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/c3059d5d/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.png
Type: image/png
Size: 20910 bytes
Desc: image001.png
URL: <Loading Image...>
Dave Click
2014-10-08 00:36:06 UTC
Permalink
William,

Just to pile on here, if you're running 4 pairs of low-voltage dc for
400' you may be better off just sticking the inverters right there at
the array and making the long run as 240Vac. #2s on each inverter output
(22A?) would work, keeping voltage drop to 1.3%. If you choose to
combine inverter outputs right there at the array (you'd need ac
disconnects there anyway) you'd have to run #3/0 for a 1.3% drop. Not
sure whether that's more feasible for you.

DKC
Post by Benn Kilburn
William,
What is your string configuration? The SMA TL inverters have a very
low operating voltage window, going down to 125 Vdc, but you still
have the issue of the disconnect.
http://www.abb.us/product/us/9AAC179447.aspx?country=US? They can be
programmed to operate down to 90 Vdc, and they give you the ability to
combine upstream and have the 2 MPPT?s operate as one, allowing you to
combine outside of the inverter and bring a single set of PV output
*Isaac Opalinsky *| Technical Trainer | *SunPower Corporation*
Desk 443-569-3476 | Cell 443-277-6286
*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]
*On Behalf Of *William Miller
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 07, 2014 12:01 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder
If only an SMA would work here. But DC volts too low. We are using Solectria PVI5200TLS.
We do not use PV wire. We transition to THWN-2 in conduit immediately.
William
Miller Solar
On Oct 6, 2014, at 8:30 PM, Chris Mason <cometenergysystems at gmail.com
I presumed SMA TL series.
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Jerry Shafer
As i read the thread you say TL which TL SMA, AE ect. They have
defferent dc input designs
On Oct 6, 2014 12:21 PM, "jay peltz" <jay at asis.com
I do believe the outback and midnite combiners have a lock hole to
prevent exactly your concern.
unauthorized access.
jay
peltz power
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I
have advocated long for the additional safety offered by these
inverters but I am realizing the trade-offs with the new
technology: The implementation gets more complicated with the
requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting means for plus and
minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about
400 feet from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria
5200 watt inverters at the residence. I would like to provide
disconnecting means for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any
needed service or excavating. Preferably I?d like the
disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person (i.e. the
gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not
easy. I could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8
touch-safe fuse holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts
for a while now. The gardener needs only to have a Philips screw
driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
<image002.jpg>
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600 <tel:805-438-5600>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
--
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer?
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician
www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com>
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/66fd0971/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/png
Size: 20910 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
Michael Kelly
2014-10-06 22:09:43 UTC
Permalink
Hi William,

I wanted to let you know that currently, there is no bypass terminal to allow for combining at the array in this series of inverters. We have gotten a lot of feedback from customers that this is a required feature. Working toward that, in the next few months, we will phase into production an update that will include a bypass, but the existing stock does not have the feature.

I wanted to let you know so you could plan appropriately.

Best,
Mike

Michael Kelly
[Solectria_Yaskawa_signature_logo]<http://www.solectria.com/>
HQ: 360 Merrimack Street, Bldg 9, Fl 2, Entrance I, Lawrence, MA 01843 USA
O: +1 978-683-9700 x167 | F: +1 978-683-9702
mike.kelly at solectria.com<mailto:mike.kelly at solectria.com> | www.solectria.com<http://www.solectria.com/>

NOTICE: This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, or an authorized representative of the recipient, please be advised that you may not use, copy or disclose its contents in part or in whole. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by replying to this e-mail, and delete the message. Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2014 14:40
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder

Wrenches:

We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment.

I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or excavating. Preferably I'd like the disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).

Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out there?

Thanks,

William


[Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/43212042/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 4892 bytes
Desc: image001.jpg
URL: <Loading Image...>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: image002.jpg
URL: <Loading Image...>
William Miller
2014-10-06 22:27:21 UTC
Permalink
Mike:



If I have just two strings of Solarworld SW275 modules per inverter, can I
use one input to the built-in combiner to feed in a combined string? My
calculations indicate that I might be able to feed the two strings into one
25 amp KLKD fuse. The Isc is 8.94. times 1.25 = 11.715. Times 2 = 22.35.



The manual says use of any fuse higher than 20 amps voids the warranty.
Could an exception be made if only one set of 25 amp fuses were installed?



William





PS: I am not sure fuses are required in a combiner with just two strings.
The SW275 module can withstand 16 amp external feed (from the max fuse
rating). A parallel module will output 8.94 times 1.56 or 13.95. This is
less than the 16 amps. This used to be allowed in earlier versions of the
code, I will have to look and see if it still is.



Wm





Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
<http://www.millersolar.com/> millersolar.com
805-438-5600



From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Michael Kelly
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 3:10 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



Hi William,



I wanted to let you know that currently, there is no bypass terminal to
allow for combining at the array in this series of inverters. We have gotten
a lot of feedback from customers that this is a required feature. Working
toward that, in the next few months, we will phase into production an update
that will include a bypass, but the existing stock does not have the
feature.



I wanted to let you know so you could plan appropriately.



Best,

Mike



Michael Kelly

<http://www.solectria.com/> Solectria_Yaskawa_signature_logo

HQ: 360 Merrimack Street, Bldg 9, Fl 2, Entrance I, Lawrence, MA 01843 USA

O: +1 978-683-9700 x167 | F: +1 978-683-9702

mike.kelly at solectria.com | www.solectria.com <http://www.solectria.com/>



NOTICE: This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information.
If you are not the intended recipient, or an authorized representative of
the recipient, please be advised that you may not use, copy or disclose its
contents in part or in whole. If you have received this message in error,
please advise the sender by replying to this e-mail, and delete the message.
Thank you.



From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2014 14:40
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



Wrenches:



We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have
advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I am
realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation gets
more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting
means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment.



I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet
from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt inverters
at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means for the 4
strings at the array, in case of any needed service or excavating.
Preferably I'd like the disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person
(i.e. the gardener).



Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I could
install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse holders. The
new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The gardener needs only
to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out
there?



Thanks,



William





Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
<http://www.millersolar.com/> millersolar.com
805-438-5600



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/f6352bf4/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 4892 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
Chris Mason
2014-10-06 23:49:30 UTC
Permalink
If it is a TL, there is a combiner input, and yes, you can use no fuses for
two strings.

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 6:27 PM, William Miller <william at millersolar.com>
Post by William Miller
If I have just two strings of Solarworld SW275 modules per inverter, can I
use one input to the built-in combiner to feed in a combined string? My
calculations indicate that I might be able to feed the two strings into one
25 amp KLKD fuse. The Isc is 8.94. times 1.25 = 11.715. Times 2 = 22.35.
The manual says use of any fuse higher than 20 amps voids the warranty.
Could an exception be made if only one set of 25 amp fuses were installed?
William
PS: I am not sure fuses are required in a combiner with just two
strings. The SW275 module can withstand 16 amp external feed (from the max
fuse rating). A parallel module will output 8.94 times 1.56 or 13.95. This
is less than the 16 amps. This used to be allowed in earlier versions of
the code, I will have to look and see if it still is.
Wm
[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Michael Kelly
*Sent:* Monday, October 06, 2014 3:10 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder
Hi William,
I wanted to let you know that currently, there is no bypass terminal to
allow for combining at the array in this series of inverters. We have
gotten a lot of feedback from customers that this is a required feature.
Working toward that, in the next few months, we will phase into production
an update that will include a bypass, but the existing stock does not have
the feature.
I wanted to let you know so you could plan appropriately.
Best,
Mike
*Michael Kelly*
[image: Solectria_Yaskawa_signature_logo] <http://www.solectria.com/>
HQ: 360 Merrimack Street, Bldg 9, Fl 2, Entrance I, Lawrence, MA 01843 USA
O: +1 978-683-9700 x167 | F: +1 978-683-9702
*mike.kelly at solectria.com <mike.kelly at solectria.com>* | www.solectria.com
*NOTICE:* This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, or an authorized
representative of the recipient, please be advised that you may not use,
copy or disclose its contents in part or in whole. If you have received
this message in error, please advise the sender by replying to this e-mail,
and delete the message. Thank you.
*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
<re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of *William Miller
*Sent:* Monday, October 6, 2014 14:40
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have
advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I
am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation
gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and
disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated
equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet
from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt
inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means
for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or
excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable
by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I
could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse
holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The
gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any
better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
--
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer?
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com>
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/78ab9135/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image005.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 4892 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image006.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
Michael Kelly
2014-10-07 18:03:32 UTC
Permalink
Hi William,

The 5200TL has two independent MPPT zones, each with two string inputs (essentially a two string combiner on each MPPT zone). The 'combiners' can't be bypassed at the moment, and the max fuse size that is allowed is 20A. Sorry, but fuses greater than 20A are not allowed; they would violate our compliance to our product listing.

Also, please be aware that the MPPT zones can't be configured to act as a single zone. Any one zone will input limit at 70% of the inverter's nameplate output, and the two zones together will limit when the inverter's AC output is reached. So, for the 5200TL, one zone is allowed to have a max input of 3640W, while the other zone will have the balance to achieve 5200W on the output side. In other words, in your example of only two strings, don't put both of your strings on one MPPT zone, because you will limit that MPPT zone and your output will only be around 3.6kW.

I hope this is helpful. Let me know if I am not understanding your example correctly.

Best,
Mike

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2014 18:27
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder

Mike:

If I have just two strings of Solarworld SW275 modules per inverter, can I use one input to the built-in combiner to feed in a combined string? My calculations indicate that I might be able to feed the two strings into one 25 amp KLKD fuse. The Isc is 8.94. times 1.25 = 11.715. Times 2 = 22.35.

The manual says use of any fuse higher than 20 amps voids the warranty. Could an exception be made if only one set of 25 amp fuses were installed?

William


PS: I am not sure fuses are required in a combiner with just two strings. The SW275 module can withstand 16 amp external feed (from the max fuse rating). A parallel module will output 8.94 times 1.56 or 13.95. This is less than the 16 amps. This used to be allowed in earlier versions of the code, I will have to look and see if it still is.

Wm


[Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Michael Kelly
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 3:10 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder

Hi William,

I wanted to let you know that currently, there is no bypass terminal to allow for combining at the array in this series of inverters. We have gotten a lot of feedback from customers that this is a required feature. Working toward that, in the next few months, we will phase into production an update that will include a bypass, but the existing stock does not have the feature.

I wanted to let you know so you could plan appropriately.

Best,
Mike

Michael Kelly
[Solectria_Yaskawa_signature_logo]<http://www.solectria.com/>
HQ: 360 Merrimack Street, Bldg 9, Fl 2, Entrance I, Lawrence, MA 01843 USA
O: +1 978-683-9700 x167 | F: +1 978-683-9702
mike.kelly at solectria.com<mailto:mike.kelly at solectria.com> | www.solectria.com<http://www.solectria.com/>

NOTICE: This e-mail may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the intended recipient, or an authorized representative of the recipient, please be advised that you may not use, copy or disclose its contents in part or in whole. If you have received this message in error, please advise the sender by replying to this e-mail, and delete the message. Thank you.

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Monday, October 6, 2014 14:40
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder

Wrenches:

We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment.

I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or excavating. Preferably I'd like the disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).

Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out there?

Thanks,

William


[Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/d5e2b26a/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image001.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: image001.jpg
URL: <Loading Image...>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 4892 bytes
Desc: image002.jpg
URL: <Loading Image...>
Chris Mason
2014-10-06 23:57:33 UTC
Permalink
I don't understand the reference to Arc-Flash. Arc-flash ratings are
dependent on high current potential, typically above 700 amp short circuit
current. I don't think you can get an arc flash from a solar system as
solar is inherently current limited.

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 2:40 PM, William Miller <william at millersolar.com>
Post by William Miller
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have
advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I
am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation
gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and
disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated
equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet
from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt
inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means
for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or
excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable
by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I
could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse
holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The
gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any
better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
--
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer?
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com>
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/4d7c6cac/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
frenergy
2014-10-07 03:47:00 UTC
Permalink
William,

Just about a week ago I asked Greg Smith at SMA to confirm that it would be appropriate to use THWN-2 in the buried PVC conduit for the DC run from a pole mount array with it's DC disco to the SMA DC disco below their inverter......Just to be sure you're not thinking you have to use PV wire all the way back to the DC disco at the inverter. He confirmed that THWN-2 used for the run from the array disco was AOK.

We have been using Midnight discos with touch-safe fuses and clear signage to not disconnect under load.....authorized solar bozos only.

Bill


----- Original Message -----
From: William Miller
To: RE-wrenches
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 11:40 AM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder


Wrenches:



We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated equipment.



I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or excavating. Preferably I'd like the disconnecting means to be deployable by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).



Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any better ideas out there?



Thanks,



William






Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600





------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141006/09fa631e/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 8424 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
William Miller
2014-10-08 02:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Jeremy:



With 4 strings of PV into 2 transformerless inverters, I would need 2 of them. At $579.00 each this is a deal killer.



William





Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600



From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of All Solar, Inc.
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:28 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



Use the Midnite SOB series.

They have a 4 pole

Jeremy Rodriguez,

President



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/bca94b3e/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
boB
2014-10-08 18:46:00 UTC
Permalink
William,
There is this DLTL disco with 8 poles. I understand that the "street
price" is very possible less than the $579 4-pole you cited earlier.

For future reference, this is also rapid shutdown ready.

http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=583&productCatName=RAPID-SHUTDOWN-SYSTEM-NEC-690.12&productCat_ID=44&sortOrder=2&act=p

boB
Post by William Miller
With 4 strings of PV into 2 transformerless inverters, I would need 2
of them. At $579.00 each this is a deal killer.
William
Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]
*On Behalf Of *All Solar, Inc.
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:28 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder
Use the Midnite SOB series.
They have a 4 pole
Jeremy Rodriguez,
President
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141008/51694916/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
Brian Mehalic
2014-10-08 19:21:16 UTC
Permalink
Have you checked out the rotary disconnects available from IDC? Their UL
listing is only to 600 V (IEC 1000), but they have numerous, multi-pole
configurations, and are outdoor rated. And inexpensive too.

http://www.industrialcontroldirect.com/solar-energy-solutions-267/solar-power-disconnect-268/dc-disconnect-3949.html

I haven't installed them yet, but have worked on some designs using the AC
versions as inverter equipment disconnects.

Cheers,


Brian Mehalic
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installation Professional? R031508-59

PV Curriculum Developer and Instructor
Solar Energy International
http://www.solarenergy.org

On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 1:46 PM, boB at midnitesolar.com <boB at midnitesolar.com>
Post by Benn Kilburn
William,
There is this DLTL disco with 8 poles. I understand that the "street
price" is very possible less than the $579 4-pole you cited earlier.
For future reference, this is also rapid shutdown ready.
http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=583&productCatName=RAPID-SHUTDOWN-SYSTEM-NEC-690.12&productCat_ID=44&sortOrder=2&act=p
boB
With 4 strings of PV into 2 transformerless inverters, I would need 2 of
them. At $579.00 each this is a deal killer.
William
[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
<re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of *All Solar,
Inc.
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:28 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder
Use the Midnite SOB series.
They have a 4 pole
Jeremy Rodriguez,
President
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141008/09e6b882/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
William Miller
2014-10-09 18:46:15 UTC
Permalink
Bob:



I reviewed the link you sent and I do not see any reference to an 8 pole
disconnect. Could you clarify, please?



Thanks,



William Miller



Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
<http://www.millersolar.com/> millersolar.com
805-438-5600



From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of boB at midnitesolar.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2014 11:46 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder




William,
There is this DLTL disco with 8 poles. I understand that the "street price"
is very possible less than the $579 4-pole you cited earlier.

For future reference, this is also rapid shutdown ready.

http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=583
<http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=583&productCatName=
RAPID-SHUTDOWN-SYSTEM-NEC-690.12&productCat_ID=44&sortOrder=2&act=p>
&productCatName=RAPID-SHUTDOWN-SYSTEM-NEC-690.12&productCat_ID=44&sortOrder=
2&act=p

boB




On 10/7/2014 7:52 PM, William Miller wrote:

Jeremy:



With 4 strings of PV into 2 transformerless inverters, I would need 2 of
them. At $579.00 each this is a deal killer.



William





Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600



From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of All Solar, Inc.
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:28 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



Use the Midnite SOB series.

They have a 4 pole

Jeremy Rodriguez,

President





-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141009/90fee128/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
boB
2014-10-09 20:30:03 UTC
Permalink
Sorry William. My mixup/mistake.

The switch is only 4 poles, not 8 poles.

I meant 8 fuses for 4 PV strings for non-isolated/ungrounded PV systems
and 2 separate outputs for dual MPPT input inverters.

boB
Post by William Miller
I reviewed the link you sent and I do not see any reference to an 8
pole disconnect. Could you clarify, please?
Thanks,
William Miller
Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org]
*On Behalf Of *boB at midnitesolar.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, October 08, 2014 11:46 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder
William,
There is this DLTL disco with 8 poles. I understand that the "street
price" is very possible less than the $579 4-pole you cited earlier.
For future reference, this is also rapid shutdown ready.
http://www.midnitesolar.com/productPhoto.php?product_ID=583&productCatName=RAPID-SHUTDOWN-SYSTEM-NEC-690.12&productCat_ID=44&sortOrder=2&act=p
boB
With 4 strings of PV into 2 transformerless inverters, I would
need 2 of them. At $579.00 each this is a deal killer.
William
Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
*From:*RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of
*All Solar, Inc.
*Sent:* Tuesday, October 07, 2014 4:28 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder
Use the Midnite SOB series.
They have a 4 pole
Jeremy Rodriguez,
President
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141009/00cce9fd/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
William Miller
2014-10-08 02:52:46 UTC
Permalink
Dave:



Several reasons to locate the inverts at the residence:



1. The Vmp at high temperature is 322 volts Moving electrons at 322
volts is preferable to moving them at 240 volts.

2. I'd rather pull 8 #8s than 2 3/0s plus whatever neutral and ground
required.

3. I'd have to argue with the AHJ to get the neutral downsized or
eliminated.

4. I'd prefer the inverters at the residence because they will be easier
to monitor and service.

5. I have a mounting structure at the residence.



Although it would be nice to have utility power at the array, we have
inverters in our service vehicles.



William





Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600



From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Dave Click
Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2014 5:36 PM
To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] TL inverter with long DC Feeder



William,

Just to pile on here, if you're running 4 pairs of low-voltage dc for 400'
you may be better off just sticking the inverters right there at the array
and making the long run as 240Vac. #2s on each inverter output (22A?) would
work, keeping voltage drop to 1.3%. If you choose to combine inverter
outputs right there at the array (you'd need ac disconnects there anyway)
you'd have to run #3/0 for a 1.3% drop. Not sure whether that's more
feasible for you.

DKC

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/05d18bc7/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
Jerry Shafer
2014-10-08 07:37:36 UTC
Permalink
Re just completed a project for a group and they required a remote
disconnect on the roof, it is a combiner box with a contactor disconnect
that is roof mounted and 100 feet away, next to the inverters we have the
push button, I will get the brand and get it to you.
Jerry

On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 8:40 AM, William Miller <william at millersolar.com>
Post by William Miller
We are getting up to speed on using transformer-less inverters. I have
advocated long for the additional safety offered by these inverters but I
am realizing the trade-offs with the new technology: The implementation
gets more complicated with the requirement for PV wire, OCPD and
disconnecting means for plus and minus and plus providing Arc Flash rated
equipment.
I am currently designing a system that will locate the PV about 400 feet
from the residence. The system will utilize 2 Solectria 5200 watt
inverters at the residence. I would like to provide disconnecting means
for the 4 strings at the array, in case of any needed service or
excavating. Preferably I?d like the disconnecting means to be deployable
by a lay person (i.e. the gardener).
Finding an 8 pole, arc flash, 600 VDC rated disconnect is not easy. I
could install an Outback 8 circuit combiner with 8 touch-safe fuse
holders. The new combiners have had dead-fronts for a while now. The
gardener needs only to have a Philips screw driver to open this cover. Any
better ideas out there?
Thanks,
William
[image: Gradient Cap_mini]
Lic 773985
millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
805-438-5600
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141007/20f92cf3/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image002.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 1460 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <Loading Image...>
Darren Anderson
2014-10-08 18:58:28 UTC
Permalink
Most DC rated disconnects are expensive and bulky, but I've had good
experiences with these ones from IMO:

http://www.imopc.com/products/1170081

A 4-pole (2 string) 800VDC 16A IP65 PV manual disconnect for about a
hundred bucks, that's pretty hard to beat.

_________________________
Darren Anderson
Loading...