Discussion:
Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
(too old to reply)
Carl Adams
2013-07-19 19:48:30 UTC
Permalink
Hello Wrenches,

I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for upcoming
projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good selling
point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from those
who have already installed these units.

Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.

My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in
the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen,
was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is
functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is
for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local
supply house and make the connections.

One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product
availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power
Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.

Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL
installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the
term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference
was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit
breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from
German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the
installer is to use to field install the SPS.


Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who have
already deployed these units.

Carl Adams
SunRock Solar
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Carl Adams
2013-07-22 11:46:10 UTC
Permalink
Nick,

I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed.
If the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a
limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no
batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.

I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I
would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually
installed them.

With Regards
Carl Adams
SunRock Solar

From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>


I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that
it won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is
available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>




Hello Wrenches,

I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for upcoming
projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good selling
point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from those
who have already installed these units.

Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.

My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in
the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen,
was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is
functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is
for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local
supply house and make the connections.

One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product
availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power
Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.

Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL
installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the
term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference
was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit
breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from
German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the
installer is to use to field install the SPS.


Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who have
already deployed these units.

Carl Adams
SunRock Solar



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--

Cordially,

*Nick Soleil*

*Field Applications Engineer
*

*Enphase Energy*

Mobile: (707) 321-2937


**

*Enphase Commercial Solar.*
*Limitless.*<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>

*
*<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>

1420 North McDowell

Petaluma, CA 94954

www.enphase.com <http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>

P: (707) 763-4784 x7267

F: (707) 763-0784

E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com

[image: nabcep logo] Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

?Don?t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It?s just that I prefer fusion
to fission. And it just so happens that there?s an enormous fusion reactor
safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could
ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it?s wireless! .?

- William McDonough

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Gary Willett
2013-07-22 22:33:26 UTC
Permalink
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wirewiz
2013-07-22 23:18:21 UTC
Permalink
If we have another long outage here in CT and we seem to have one every year now, I don't want to have to explain to my customers why I didn't use this inverter.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Willett <Gary at IcarusSolarServices.com>
Sender: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 17:33:26
To: <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Reply-To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply

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Jesse Dahl
2013-07-23 22:10:38 UTC
Permalink
I know the MREA in WI has one installed on site, but not sure who installed it.

Do they have a representative on the list?

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2013, at 6:18 PM, wirewiz at gmail.com wrote:

> If we have another long outage here in CT and we seem to have one every year now, I don't want to have to explain to my customers why I didn't use this inverter.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Willett <Gary at IcarusSolarServices.com>
> Sender: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 17:33:26
> To: <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Reply-To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
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Orion Thornton
2013-07-24 05:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Hi Carl and All,

This spring we had the opportunity to install a 5000-TLUS inverter for a
client, as a pre-release version. The inverter was commissioned on April
1st and has produced about 2.7 MWhs thus far. As mentioned, the secure
power supply (SPS) requires a dedicated outlet with a switch to control its
operation. For this installation we installed the SPS in the mechanical
room, which is about 50 ft from where the inverter is located. We chose the
mechanical room because it is centrally located within the floor plan of the
home, making it easily accessible to plug in emergency type loads, i.e. cell
phone chargers, laptops, lamps, etc.. It is also very close to the fridge,
which we plugged in with a short extension cord and tested its operation in
the "stand-alone" mode (which is what the inverter display when the grid is
down and the SPS in activated). The inverter had no problem powering the
fridge. The inverter display showed about 900 watts bypassed from the solar
array to the SPS when the fridge cycled on....I must say it was a very cool
feeling seeing this happen.

As far as the inverter itself goes, I only have a few minor complaints.
Like the old SMA 1800U and 2500U, the conduit knockouts on the bottom of the
inverter are at a slight angle, which means you must put a slight bend in
your conduit. This is obviously a bit annoying and I can only guess it has
something to do with the plug and play nature of non-U.S. installation
techniques. The TLUS inverters are also lacking Bluetooth communication,
unlike their HFUS counterparts. I think this is a nice feature of the HFUS
inverters and wish it was integrated into the TL's.

With no real difference in cost compared to traditional grid-direct
inverters, I see no reason not to specify the TL, especially for someone who
has a desire for "limited" power supply during a grid outage. They can
always add a Sunny Island later on, if a more robust backup system is
needed.

I hope this helps.

Orion Thornton
Onsite Energy
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer

-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Dahl
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:11 PM
To: wirewiz at gmail.com; RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply

I know the MREA in WI has one installed on site, but not sure who installed
it.

Do they have a representative on the list?

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2013, at 6:18 PM, wirewiz at gmail.com wrote:

> If we have another long outage here in CT and we seem to have one every
year now, I don't want to have to explain to my customers why I didn't use
this inverter.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Willett <Gary at IcarusSolarServices.com>
> Sender: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Mon, 22 Jul 2013
17:33:26
> To: <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Reply-To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
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Orion Thornton
2013-07-24 05:16:23 UTC
Permalink
Hi Carl and All,

This spring we had the opportunity to install a 5000-TLUS inverter for a
client, as a pre-release version. The inverter was commissioned on April
1st and has produced about 2.7 MWhs thus far. As mentioned, the secure
power supply (SPS) requires a dedicated outlet with a switch to control its
operation. For this installation we installed the SPS in the mechanical
room, which is about 50 ft from where the inverter is located. We chose the
mechanical room because it is centrally located within the floor plan of the
home, making it easily accessible to plug in emergency type loads, i.e. cell
phone chargers, laptops, lamps, etc.. It is also very close to the fridge,
which we plugged in with a short extension cord and tested its operation in
the "stand-alone" mode (which is what the inverter display when the grid is
down and the SPS in activated). The inverter had no problem powering the
fridge. The inverter display showed about 900 watts bypassed from the solar
array to the SPS when the fridge cycled on....I must say it was a very cool
feeling seeing this happen.

As far as the inverter itself goes, I only have a few minor complaints.
Like the old SMA 1800U and 2500U, the conduit knockouts on the bottom of the
inverter are at a slight angle, which means you must put a slight bend in
your conduit. This is obviously a bit annoying and I can only guess it has
something to do with the plug and play nature of non-U.S. installation
techniques. The TLUS inverters are also lacking Bluetooth communication,
unlike their HFUS counterparts. I think this is a nice feature of the HFUS
inverters and wish it was integrated into the TL's.

With no real difference in cost compared to traditional grid-direct
inverters, I see no reason not to specify the TL, especially for someone who
has a desire for "limited" power supply during a grid outage. They can
always add a Sunny Island later on, if a more robust backup system is
needed.

I hope this helps.

Orion Thornton
Onsite Energy
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer

-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Dahl
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:11 PM
To: wirewiz at gmail.com; RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply

I know the MREA in WI has one installed on site, but not sure who installed
it.

Do they have a representative on the list?

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2013, at 6:18 PM, wirewiz at gmail.com wrote:

> If we have another long outage here in CT and we seem to have one every
year now, I don't want to have to explain to my customers why I didn't use
this inverter.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Willett <Gary at IcarusSolarServices.com>
> Sender: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Mon, 22 Jul 2013
17:33:26
> To: <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Reply-To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
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Jesse Dahl
2013-07-23 22:10:38 UTC
Permalink
I know the MREA in WI has one installed on site, but not sure who installed it.

Do they have a representative on the list?

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2013, at 6:18 PM, wirewiz at gmail.com wrote:

> If we have another long outage here in CT and we seem to have one every year now, I don't want to have to explain to my customers why I didn't use this inverter.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gary Willett <Gary at IcarusSolarServices.com>
> Sender: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 17:33:26
> To: <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Reply-To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
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Steve Jefferson
2013-07-24 06:02:03 UTC
Permalink
If the grid fails, and comes back up the next day (when the unit powers back up from DC) it will automatically search for the grid first. If the grid is not back, the homeowner will have to exercise the switch to regain the SPS function.

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2013, at 3:33 PM, "Gary Willett" <Gary at IcarusSolarServices.com<mailto:Gary at IcarusSolarServices.com>> wrote:

CARL:

I have not installed any SBs with the "SPS" feature.

My understanding is that manual activation and deactivation of the SPS grid-loss outlet is required.

Not a big deal, but the homeowner has to remember to deactivate the function when grid power returns in order to start delivering power again from the SB.

Regards,

Gary Willett
Icarus Engineering LLC

On 7/22/13 6:46 AM, Carl Adams wrote:

Nick,

I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed. If the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.

I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually installed them.

With Regards
Carl Adams
SunRock Solar

From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com<mailto:nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com<mailto:swingjunkie at gmail.com>>


I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that it won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com<mailto:swingjunkie at gmail.com>>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>




Hello Wrenches,

I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for upcoming projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good selling point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from those who have already installed these units.

Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.

My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen, was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local supply house and make the connections.

One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.

Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the installer is to use to field install the SPS.


Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who have already deployed these units.

Carl Adams
SunRock Solar



_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>

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Check out participant bios:
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--

Cordially,

Nick Soleil

Field Applications Engineer

Enphase Energy

Mobile: (707) 321-2937


Enphase Commercial Solar. Limitless.<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>


<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>

1420 North McDowell

Petaluma, CA 94954

www.enphase.com<http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>

P: (707) 763-4784 x7267

F: (707) 763-0784

E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com<mailto:nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>

<mime-attachment.jpg> Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

?Don?t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It?s just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there?s an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it?s wireless! .?

- William McDonough

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.






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wirewiz
2013-07-22 23:18:21 UTC
Permalink
If we have another long outage here in CT and we seem to have one every year now, I don't want to have to explain to my customers why I didn't use this inverter.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Willett <Gary at IcarusSolarServices.com>
Sender: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 17:33:26
To: <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Reply-To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply

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Steve Jefferson
2013-07-24 06:02:03 UTC
Permalink
If the grid fails, and comes back up the next day (when the unit powers back up from DC) it will automatically search for the grid first. If the grid is not back, the homeowner will have to exercise the switch to regain the SPS function.

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 22, 2013, at 3:33 PM, "Gary Willett" <Gary at IcarusSolarServices.com<mailto:Gary at IcarusSolarServices.com>> wrote:

CARL:

I have not installed any SBs with the "SPS" feature.

My understanding is that manual activation and deactivation of the SPS grid-loss outlet is required.

Not a big deal, but the homeowner has to remember to deactivate the function when grid power returns in order to start delivering power again from the SB.

Regards,

Gary Willett
Icarus Engineering LLC

On 7/22/13 6:46 AM, Carl Adams wrote:

Nick,

I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed. If the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.

I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually installed them.

With Regards
Carl Adams
SunRock Solar

From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com<mailto:nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com<mailto:swingjunkie at gmail.com>>


I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that it won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com<mailto:swingjunkie at gmail.com>>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>




Hello Wrenches,

I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for upcoming projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good selling point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from those who have already installed these units.

Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.

My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen, was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local supply house and make the connections.

One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.

Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the installer is to use to field install the SPS.


Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who have already deployed these units.

Carl Adams
SunRock Solar



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--

Cordially,

Nick Soleil

Field Applications Engineer

Enphase Energy

Mobile: (707) 321-2937


Enphase Commercial Solar. Limitless.<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>


<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>

1420 North McDowell

Petaluma, CA 94954

www.enphase.com<http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>

P: (707) 763-4784 x7267

F: (707) 763-0784

E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com<mailto:nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>

<mime-attachment.jpg> Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

?Don?t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It?s just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there?s an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it?s wireless! .?

- William McDonough

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.






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James Gustafson
2013-07-29 21:44:05 UTC
Permalink
Hello Solar Folk,

I'm wondering if it is possible combine the secure power source outputs of
two SMA SBTL-22's in series to run a 240v load, like a small well pump.
Does anyone have any ideas about the feasibility of this concept?

Thank You Much,
Djibril


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:46 AM, Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Nick,
>
> I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed.
> If the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a
> limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no
> batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.
>
> I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I
> would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually
> installed them.
>
> With Regards
> Carl Adams
> SunRock Solar
>
> From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>
> Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
> Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
> To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
>
>
> I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that
> it won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is
> available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
>
>
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for
> upcoming projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good
> selling point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from
> those who have already installed these units.
>
> Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.
>
> My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in
> the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen,
> was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is
> functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is
> for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local
> supply house and make the connections.
>
> One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product
> availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power
> Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.
>
> Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL
> installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the
> term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference
> was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit
> breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from
> German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the
> installer is to use to field install the SPS.
>
>
> Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who
> have already deployed these units.
>
> Carl Adams
> SunRock Solar
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Cordially,
>
> *Nick Soleil*
>
> *Field Applications Engineer
> *
>
> *Enphase Energy*
>
> Mobile: (707) 321-2937
>
>
> **
>
> *Enphase Commercial Solar.* *Limitless.*<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>
>
> *
> *<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>
>
> 1420 North McDowell
>
> Petaluma, CA 94954
>
> www.enphase.com <http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>
>
> P: (707) 763-4784 x7267
>
> F: (707) 763-0784
>
> E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com
>
> [image: nabcep logo] Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300
>
> ?Don?t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It?s just that I prefer fusion
> to fission. And it just so happens that there?s an enormous fusion reactor
> safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could
> ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it?s wireless! .?
>
> - William McDonough
>
> This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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>
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James Gustafson
2013-07-29 21:56:01 UTC
Permalink
Hello again Solar Folk,

I just heard back from SMA tech support. Not possible. With no
communication between inverters there is not way to sync the sine waves and
keep it all "pretty." Alas. . .

Thanks again,
Djibril


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 3:44 PM, James Gustafson <djibrilfall at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello Solar Folk,
>
> I'm wondering if it is possible combine the secure power source outputs of
> two SMA SBTL-22's in series to run a 240v load, like a small well pump.
> Does anyone have any ideas about the feasibility of this concept?
>
> Thank You Much,
> Djibril
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:46 AM, Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Nick,
>>
>> I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed.
>> If the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a
>> limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no
>> batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.
>>
>> I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I
>> would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually
>> installed them.
>>
>> With Regards
>> Carl Adams
>> SunRock Solar
>>
>> From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>
>> Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
>> Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
>> To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that
>> it won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is
>> available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
>> Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Wrenches,
>>
>> I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for
>> upcoming projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good
>> selling point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from
>> those who have already installed these units.
>>
>> Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.
>>
>> My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in
>> the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen,
>> was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is
>> functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is
>> for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local
>> supply house and make the connections.
>>
>> One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product
>> availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power
>> Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.
>>
>> Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL
>> installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the
>> term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference
>> was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit
>> breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from
>> German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the
>> installer is to use to field install the SPS.
>>
>>
>> Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who
>> have already deployed these units.
>>
>> Carl Adams
>> SunRock Solar
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> *Nick Soleil*
>>
>> *Field Applications Engineer
>> *
>>
>> *Enphase Energy*
>>
>> Mobile: (707) 321-2937
>>
>>
>> **
>>
>> *Enphase Commercial Solar.* *Limitless.*<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>
>>
>> *
>> *<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>
>>
>> 1420 North McDowell
>>
>> Petaluma, CA 94954
>>
>> www.enphase.com <http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>
>>
>> P: (707) 763-4784 x7267
>>
>> F: (707) 763-0784
>>
>> E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com
>>
>> [image: nabcep logo] Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300
>>
>> ?Don?t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It?s just that I prefer
>> fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there?s an enormous fusion
>> reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we
>> could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it?s wireless! .?
>>
>> - William McDonough
>>
>> This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
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>>
>
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Steve Jefferson
2013-07-29 21:56:45 UTC
Permalink
Sorry, but running the SPS in series to create 240VAC is not possible.

Thanks

SMA America, LLC
Steve Jefferson
Supervisor, Service Line
6020 West Oaks Blvd, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714
U.S.A.
Tel: +1 916 625 0870
Fax: +1 916 624-2445
Service Line +1 877 697 6283 (Toll Free)
Email: steve.jefferson at sma-america.com
www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/>

This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you.

[cid:image003.png at 01CE517D.21006940]<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQWzPuyqhzo&feature=youtu.be>

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of James Gustafson
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:44 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply

Hello Solar Folk,

I'm wondering if it is possible combine the secure power source outputs of two SMA SBTL-22's in series to run a 240v load, like a small well pump. Does anyone have any ideas about the feasibility of this concept?

Thank You Much,
Djibril

On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:46 AM, Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com<mailto:swingjunkie at gmail.com>> wrote:

Nick,

I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed. If the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.

I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually installed them.

With Regards
Carl Adams
SunRock Solar
From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com<mailto:nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com<mailto:swingjunkie at gmail.com>>

I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that it won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com<mailto:swingjunkie at gmail.com>>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>


Hello Wrenches,

I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for upcoming projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good selling point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from those who have already installed these units.

Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.

My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen, was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local supply house and make the connections.

One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.

Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the installer is to use to field install the SPS.


Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who have already deployed these units.

Carl Adams
SunRock Solar



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List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>

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--

Cordially,

Nick Soleil

Field Applications Engineer

Enphase Energy

Mobile: (707) 321-2937



Enphase Commercial Solar. Limitless.<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>


<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>

1420 North McDowell

Petaluma, CA 94954

www.enphase.com<http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>

P: (707) 763-4784 x7267

F: (707) 763-0784

E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com<mailto:nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>

Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

"Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless! ."

- William McDonough

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.




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Daniel Young
2013-09-03 15:18:59 UTC
Permalink
For the well pump, you could get a small auto transformer to give you 240V
out of the 120V output. I have no idea how the ne TL-22's will handle the
pump though.



We've installed one 3kw unit thus far and are impressed. We've only powered
small items thus far, dewalt battery chargers, box fans, laptop chargers, no
issues there. We plan to experiment a little, trying to power a newer model
refrigerator off an extension cord. Also possibly a shop vac, to see if the
motor surge trips the SPS into some sort of fault condition. Will follow-up
on those if/when we decide to go there.



As for installation feedback, the units are easy to mount and the wiring is
straight forward when you read the manual first. The AC output comes off the
inverter angled slightly towards the wall, so you either need to use flex,
or bend your pvc/emt/grc to bring the conduit run back in line with the
mounting wall. The SPS is not a part of the inverter package, you must go
buy whatever components you want for setting up the SPS. We used a double
gang box, with a simple 15A light switch and duplex outlet, so it's no big
deal to walk into any supply house and get what you need on the fly if you
forgot to put it on the truck. It may be harder to get everything if you
need to mount the SPS outdoors, making sure everything is rated for the
purpose.



The DC connection between the DC disconnect and the inverter is only a 3
wire cable, which in counter intuitive at first for a system with 2 separate
DC MPPT circuits. But they bring the negatives of both circuits together
before going to the inverter (this is what I surmised after examining the
PCB inside the DC disconnect).



One thing that some installers may miss, especially if they don't read the
manual is that by default all the rotary dials that set the country,
language, grid-tie requirements, and communications ID# are set to 0-0-0. In
the US we need to change these to the appropriate settings based on your
preferences. The manual states that the setting are locked in after 10
operating hours, and an SMA code must be entered to change the setting after
that. The manual indicates that these settings may already be the "default"
for the inverter, requiring no changes, but when calling SMA tech support
for our first install they made it sound like we needed to use the rotary
dials to confirm the correct language, grid settings, etc.



Other things to note:

- The new TL-22's require a neutral in all cases, unlike their
transformer based cousins. This makes them incompatible with 240V 3ph high
leg delta grid installations. (you can install them only on the 2 legs that
are used for split phase 240/120v making an imbalanced installation, which
may not matter depending on the size of service vs the array).

- The inverters include DC surge suppression in the DC Disconnect
that is easily serviceable. This is a nice feature during a tightly budgeted
install. But we typically will install the midnight solar arrestors as well,
so we have a visual indication that the system is protected.

- They are ridiculously quiet. (The spec sheet indicates this with
around 25db sound levels) When standing 2ft in front of the inverter it
cannot be heard (at least by me) during operation (grid-tie and SPS modes).
If fact I could hear the mechanical kWh meter we installed to track it's
production ratcheting away clearly, but nothing from the inverter. The
inverter will make several "clicks" during the first 30 sec of startup when
the grid is turned on. I suspect this is the AFCI and other safety features
doing self checks before connecting to the grid. I have not been around the
inverter at dawn to see if these clicking noises happen every morning when
the array hits the startup voltage though.

- If you turn the SPS on when the grid is up, it will not activate
and the inverter will continue to grid-tie. If you want to use the SPS
outlet, then you need turn the AC breaker off before hand, simulating an
outage.



That what I have after a 1 week runtime. If anything else of note appears,
I'll try to post it here on the wrench list.



Daniel Young,

NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90

NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13



From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Jefferson
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 5:57 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply



Sorry, but running the SPS in series to create 240VAC is not possible.



Thanks



SMA America, LLC

Steve Jefferson

Supervisor, Service Line

6020 West Oaks Blvd, Suite 300

Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714

U.S.A.

Tel: +1 916 625 0870

Fax: +1 916 624-2445

Service Line +1 877 697 6283 (Toll Free)

Email: steve.jefferson at sma-america.com

www.SMA-America.com <http://www.sma-america.com/>



This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC
confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the
intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or
any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and
permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
attachments thereto. Thank you.



<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQWzPuyqhzo&feature=youtu.be>
cid:image003.png at 01CE517D.21006940



From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of James
Gustafson
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:44 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply



Hello Solar Folk,



I'm wondering if it is possible combine the secure power source outputs of
two SMA SBTL-22's in series to run a 240v load, like a small well pump. Does
anyone have any ideas about the feasibility of this concept?



Thank You Much,

Djibril



On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:46 AM, Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com> wrote:



Nick,



I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed. If
the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a
limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no
batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.



I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I
would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually
installed them.



With Regards

Carl Adams

SunRock Solar

From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>

I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that it
won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is
available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>



Hello Wrenches,



I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for upcoming
projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good selling
point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from those
who have already installed these units.



Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.



My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in the
tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen, was an
actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is
functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is
for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local
supply house and make the connections.



One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product
availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power
Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.



Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL
installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the term
"miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference was to
the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit breaker
integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from German to
English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the installer is to
use to field install the SPS.





Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who have
already deployed these units.



Carl Adams

SunRock Solar







_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
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List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org




--

Cordially,

Nick Soleil

Field Applications Engineer

Enphase Energy

Mobile: (707) 321-2937




<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campa
ign=Comm2012> Enphase Commercial Solar. Limitless.


<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campa
ign=Comm2012>


1420 North McDowell

Petaluma, CA 94954

www.enphase.com <http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>

P: (707) 763-4784 x7267

F: (707) 763-0784

E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com

Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

"Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion
to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor
safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could
ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless! ."

- William McDonough

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an
intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute
this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the
sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.





_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
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Steve Jefferson
2013-09-04 14:36:52 UTC
Permalink
Morning Wrenches,

To your statement about the rotary switches, The rotary switches are for changing the language or setting the inverter to off-grid mode for use with Sunny Island off-grid systems.

In 99.9% of normal residential installations, there is no need to touch the rotary dials. Even on a 208 grid, as the unit is auto sensing.

The Neutral is always needed in any TL unit.

It is always a good idea when installing a new product to read the manual.

Anything else, please contact me offline.

SMA America, LLC
Steve Jefferson
Supervisor, Service Line
6020 West Oaks Blvd, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714
U.S.A.
Tel: +1 916 625 0870
Fax: +1 916 624-2445
Service Line +1 877 697 6283 (Toll Free)
Email: steve.jefferson at sma-america.com
www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/>

This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you.

[cid:image003.png at 01CE517D.21006940]<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQWzPuyqhzo&feature=youtu.be>

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Young
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 8:19 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply

For the well pump, you could get a small auto transformer to give you 240V out of the 120V output. I have no idea how the ne TL-22's will handle the pump though.

We've installed one 3kw unit thus far and are impressed. We've only powered small items thus far, dewalt battery chargers, box fans, laptop chargers, no issues there. We plan to experiment a little, trying to power a newer model refrigerator off an extension cord. Also possibly a shop vac, to see if the motor surge trips the SPS into some sort of fault condition. Will follow-up on those if/when we decide to go there.

As for installation feedback, the units are easy to mount and the wiring is straight forward when you read the manual first. The AC output comes off the inverter angled slightly towards the wall, so you either need to use flex, or bend your pvc/emt/grc to bring the conduit run back in line with the mounting wall. The SPS is not a part of the inverter package, you must go buy whatever components you want for setting up the SPS. We used a double gang box, with a simple 15A light switch and duplex outlet, so it's no big deal to walk into any supply house and get what you need on the fly if you forgot to put it on the truck. It may be harder to get everything if you need to mount the SPS outdoors, making sure everything is rated for the purpose.

The DC connection between the DC disconnect and the inverter is only a 3 wire cable, which in counter intuitive at first for a system with 2 separate DC MPPT circuits. But they bring the negatives of both circuits together before going to the inverter (this is what I surmised after examining the PCB inside the DC disconnect).

One thing that some installers may miss, especially if they don't read the manual is that by default all the rotary dials that set the country, language, grid-tie requirements, and communications ID# are set to 0-0-0. In the US we need to change these to the appropriate settings based on your preferences. The manual states that the setting are locked in after 10 operating hours, and an SMA code must be entered to change the setting after that. The manual indicates that these settings may already be the "default" for the inverter, requiring no changes, but when calling SMA tech support for our first install they made it sound like we needed to use the rotary dials to confirm the correct language, grid settings, etc...

Other things to note:

- The new TL-22's require a neutral in all cases, unlike their transformer based cousins. This makes them incompatible with 240V 3ph high leg delta grid installations. (you can install them only on the 2 legs that are used for split phase 240/120v making an imbalanced installation, which may not matter depending on the size of service vs the array).

- The inverters include DC surge suppression in the DC Disconnect that is easily serviceable. This is a nice feature during a tightly budgeted install. But we typically will install the midnight solar arrestors as well, so we have a visual indication that the system is protected.

- They are ridiculously quiet. (The spec sheet indicates this with around 25db sound levels) When standing 2ft in front of the inverter it cannot be heard (at least by me) during operation (grid-tie and SPS modes). If fact I could hear the mechanical kWh meter we installed to track it's production ratcheting away clearly, but nothing from the inverter. The inverter will make several "clicks" during the first 30 sec of startup when the grid is turned on. I suspect this is the AFCI and other safety features doing self checks before connecting to the grid. I have not been around the inverter at dawn to see if these clicking noises happen every morning when the array hits the startup voltage though.

- If you turn the SPS on when the grid is up, it will not activate and the inverter will continue to grid-tie. If you want to use the SPS outlet, then you need turn the AC breaker off before hand, simulating an outage.

That what I have after a 1 week runtime. If anything else of note appears, I'll try to post it here on the wrench list.

Daniel Young,
NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13

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Steve Jefferson
2013-09-04 14:36:52 UTC
Permalink
Morning Wrenches,

To your statement about the rotary switches, The rotary switches are for changing the language or setting the inverter to off-grid mode for use with Sunny Island off-grid systems.

In 99.9% of normal residential installations, there is no need to touch the rotary dials. Even on a 208 grid, as the unit is auto sensing.

The Neutral is always needed in any TL unit.

It is always a good idea when installing a new product to read the manual.

Anything else, please contact me offline.

SMA America, LLC
Steve Jefferson
Supervisor, Service Line
6020 West Oaks Blvd, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714
U.S.A.
Tel: +1 916 625 0870
Fax: +1 916 624-2445
Service Line +1 877 697 6283 (Toll Free)
Email: steve.jefferson at sma-america.com
www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/>

This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you.

[cid:image003.png at 01CE517D.21006940]<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQWzPuyqhzo&feature=youtu.be>

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Young
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 8:19 AM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply

For the well pump, you could get a small auto transformer to give you 240V out of the 120V output. I have no idea how the ne TL-22's will handle the pump though.

We've installed one 3kw unit thus far and are impressed. We've only powered small items thus far, dewalt battery chargers, box fans, laptop chargers, no issues there. We plan to experiment a little, trying to power a newer model refrigerator off an extension cord. Also possibly a shop vac, to see if the motor surge trips the SPS into some sort of fault condition. Will follow-up on those if/when we decide to go there.

As for installation feedback, the units are easy to mount and the wiring is straight forward when you read the manual first. The AC output comes off the inverter angled slightly towards the wall, so you either need to use flex, or bend your pvc/emt/grc to bring the conduit run back in line with the mounting wall. The SPS is not a part of the inverter package, you must go buy whatever components you want for setting up the SPS. We used a double gang box, with a simple 15A light switch and duplex outlet, so it's no big deal to walk into any supply house and get what you need on the fly if you forgot to put it on the truck. It may be harder to get everything if you need to mount the SPS outdoors, making sure everything is rated for the purpose.

The DC connection between the DC disconnect and the inverter is only a 3 wire cable, which in counter intuitive at first for a system with 2 separate DC MPPT circuits. But they bring the negatives of both circuits together before going to the inverter (this is what I surmised after examining the PCB inside the DC disconnect).

One thing that some installers may miss, especially if they don't read the manual is that by default all the rotary dials that set the country, language, grid-tie requirements, and communications ID# are set to 0-0-0. In the US we need to change these to the appropriate settings based on your preferences. The manual states that the setting are locked in after 10 operating hours, and an SMA code must be entered to change the setting after that. The manual indicates that these settings may already be the "default" for the inverter, requiring no changes, but when calling SMA tech support for our first install they made it sound like we needed to use the rotary dials to confirm the correct language, grid settings, etc...

Other things to note:

- The new TL-22's require a neutral in all cases, unlike their transformer based cousins. This makes them incompatible with 240V 3ph high leg delta grid installations. (you can install them only on the 2 legs that are used for split phase 240/120v making an imbalanced installation, which may not matter depending on the size of service vs the array).

- The inverters include DC surge suppression in the DC Disconnect that is easily serviceable. This is a nice feature during a tightly budgeted install. But we typically will install the midnight solar arrestors as well, so we have a visual indication that the system is protected.

- They are ridiculously quiet. (The spec sheet indicates this with around 25db sound levels) When standing 2ft in front of the inverter it cannot be heard (at least by me) during operation (grid-tie and SPS modes). If fact I could hear the mechanical kWh meter we installed to track it's production ratcheting away clearly, but nothing from the inverter. The inverter will make several "clicks" during the first 30 sec of startup when the grid is turned on. I suspect this is the AFCI and other safety features doing self checks before connecting to the grid. I have not been around the inverter at dawn to see if these clicking noises happen every morning when the array hits the startup voltage though.

- If you turn the SPS on when the grid is up, it will not activate and the inverter will continue to grid-tie. If you want to use the SPS outlet, then you need turn the AC breaker off before hand, simulating an outage.

That what I have after a 1 week runtime. If anything else of note appears, I'll try to post it here on the wrench list.

Daniel Young,
NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13

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Daniel Young
2013-09-03 15:18:59 UTC
Permalink
For the well pump, you could get a small auto transformer to give you 240V
out of the 120V output. I have no idea how the ne TL-22's will handle the
pump though.



We've installed one 3kw unit thus far and are impressed. We've only powered
small items thus far, dewalt battery chargers, box fans, laptop chargers, no
issues there. We plan to experiment a little, trying to power a newer model
refrigerator off an extension cord. Also possibly a shop vac, to see if the
motor surge trips the SPS into some sort of fault condition. Will follow-up
on those if/when we decide to go there.



As for installation feedback, the units are easy to mount and the wiring is
straight forward when you read the manual first. The AC output comes off the
inverter angled slightly towards the wall, so you either need to use flex,
or bend your pvc/emt/grc to bring the conduit run back in line with the
mounting wall. The SPS is not a part of the inverter package, you must go
buy whatever components you want for setting up the SPS. We used a double
gang box, with a simple 15A light switch and duplex outlet, so it's no big
deal to walk into any supply house and get what you need on the fly if you
forgot to put it on the truck. It may be harder to get everything if you
need to mount the SPS outdoors, making sure everything is rated for the
purpose.



The DC connection between the DC disconnect and the inverter is only a 3
wire cable, which in counter intuitive at first for a system with 2 separate
DC MPPT circuits. But they bring the negatives of both circuits together
before going to the inverter (this is what I surmised after examining the
PCB inside the DC disconnect).



One thing that some installers may miss, especially if they don't read the
manual is that by default all the rotary dials that set the country,
language, grid-tie requirements, and communications ID# are set to 0-0-0. In
the US we need to change these to the appropriate settings based on your
preferences. The manual states that the setting are locked in after 10
operating hours, and an SMA code must be entered to change the setting after
that. The manual indicates that these settings may already be the "default"
for the inverter, requiring no changes, but when calling SMA tech support
for our first install they made it sound like we needed to use the rotary
dials to confirm the correct language, grid settings, etc.



Other things to note:

- The new TL-22's require a neutral in all cases, unlike their
transformer based cousins. This makes them incompatible with 240V 3ph high
leg delta grid installations. (you can install them only on the 2 legs that
are used for split phase 240/120v making an imbalanced installation, which
may not matter depending on the size of service vs the array).

- The inverters include DC surge suppression in the DC Disconnect
that is easily serviceable. This is a nice feature during a tightly budgeted
install. But we typically will install the midnight solar arrestors as well,
so we have a visual indication that the system is protected.

- They are ridiculously quiet. (The spec sheet indicates this with
around 25db sound levels) When standing 2ft in front of the inverter it
cannot be heard (at least by me) during operation (grid-tie and SPS modes).
If fact I could hear the mechanical kWh meter we installed to track it's
production ratcheting away clearly, but nothing from the inverter. The
inverter will make several "clicks" during the first 30 sec of startup when
the grid is turned on. I suspect this is the AFCI and other safety features
doing self checks before connecting to the grid. I have not been around the
inverter at dawn to see if these clicking noises happen every morning when
the array hits the startup voltage though.

- If you turn the SPS on when the grid is up, it will not activate
and the inverter will continue to grid-tie. If you want to use the SPS
outlet, then you need turn the AC breaker off before hand, simulating an
outage.



That what I have after a 1 week runtime. If anything else of note appears,
I'll try to post it here on the wrench list.



Daniel Young,

NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90

NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13



From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Steve
Jefferson
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 5:57 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply



Sorry, but running the SPS in series to create 240VAC is not possible.



Thanks



SMA America, LLC

Steve Jefferson

Supervisor, Service Line

6020 West Oaks Blvd, Suite 300

Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714

U.S.A.

Tel: +1 916 625 0870

Fax: +1 916 624-2445

Service Line +1 877 697 6283 (Toll Free)

Email: steve.jefferson at sma-america.com

www.SMA-America.com <http://www.sma-america.com/>



This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC
confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the
intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or
any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not
the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and
permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
attachments thereto. Thank you.



<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQWzPuyqhzo&feature=youtu.be>
cid:image003.png at 01CE517D.21006940



From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of James
Gustafson
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:44 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply



Hello Solar Folk,



I'm wondering if it is possible combine the secure power source outputs of
two SMA SBTL-22's in series to run a 240v load, like a small well pump. Does
anyone have any ideas about the feasibility of this concept?



Thank You Much,

Djibril



On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:46 AM, Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com> wrote:



Nick,



I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed. If
the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a
limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no
batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.



I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I
would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually
installed them.



With Regards

Carl Adams

SunRock Solar

From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>

I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that it
won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is
available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>



Hello Wrenches,



I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for upcoming
projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good selling
point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from those
who have already installed these units.



Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.



My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in the
tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen, was an
actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is
functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is
for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local
supply house and make the connections.



One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product
availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power
Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.



Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL
installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the term
"miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference was to
the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit breaker
integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from German to
English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the installer is to
use to field install the SPS.





Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who have
already deployed these units.



Carl Adams

SunRock Solar







_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive:
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List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org




--

Cordially,

Nick Soleil

Field Applications Engineer

Enphase Energy

Mobile: (707) 321-2937




<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campa
ign=Comm2012> Enphase Commercial Solar. Limitless.


<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campa
ign=Comm2012>


1420 North McDowell

Petaluma, CA 94954

www.enphase.com <http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>

P: (707) 763-4784 x7267

F: (707) 763-0784

E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com

Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

"Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion
to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor
safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could
ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless! ."

- William McDonough

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an
intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute
this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the
sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.





_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

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http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

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James Gustafson
2013-07-29 21:56:01 UTC
Permalink
Hello again Solar Folk,

I just heard back from SMA tech support. Not possible. With no
communication between inverters there is not way to sync the sine waves and
keep it all "pretty." Alas. . .

Thanks again,
Djibril


On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 3:44 PM, James Gustafson <djibrilfall at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hello Solar Folk,
>
> I'm wondering if it is possible combine the secure power source outputs of
> two SMA SBTL-22's in series to run a 240v load, like a small well pump.
> Does anyone have any ideas about the feasibility of this concept?
>
> Thank You Much,
> Djibril
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:46 AM, Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Nick,
>>
>> I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed.
>> If the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a
>> limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no
>> batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.
>>
>> I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I
>> would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually
>> installed them.
>>
>> With Regards
>> Carl Adams
>> SunRock Solar
>>
>> From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>
>> Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
>> Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
>> To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
>>
>>
>> I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that
>> it won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is
>> available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
>> Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Wrenches,
>>
>> I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for
>> upcoming projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good
>> selling point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from
>> those who have already installed these units.
>>
>> Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.
>>
>> My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in
>> the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen,
>> was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is
>> functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is
>> for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local
>> supply house and make the connections.
>>
>> One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product
>> availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power
>> Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.
>>
>> Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL
>> installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the
>> term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference
>> was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit
>> breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from
>> German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the
>> installer is to use to field install the SPS.
>>
>>
>> Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who
>> have already deployed these units.
>>
>> Carl Adams
>> SunRock Solar
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> *Nick Soleil*
>>
>> *Field Applications Engineer
>> *
>>
>> *Enphase Energy*
>>
>> Mobile: (707) 321-2937
>>
>>
>> **
>>
>> *Enphase Commercial Solar.* *Limitless.*<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>
>>
>> *
>> *<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>
>>
>> 1420 North McDowell
>>
>> Petaluma, CA 94954
>>
>> www.enphase.com <http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>
>>
>> P: (707) 763-4784 x7267
>>
>> F: (707) 763-0784
>>
>> E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com
>>
>> [image: nabcep logo] Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300
>>
>> ?Don?t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It?s just that I prefer
>> fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there?s an enormous fusion
>> reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we
>> could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it?s wireless! .?
>>
>> - William McDonough
>>
>> This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>>
>
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Steve Jefferson
2013-07-29 21:56:45 UTC
Permalink
Sorry, but running the SPS in series to create 240VAC is not possible.

Thanks

SMA America, LLC
Steve Jefferson
Supervisor, Service Line
6020 West Oaks Blvd, Suite 300
Rocklin, CA 95765 - 3714
U.S.A.
Tel: +1 916 625 0870
Fax: +1 916 624-2445
Service Line +1 877 697 6283 (Toll Free)
Email: steve.jefferson at sma-america.com
www.SMA-America.com<http://www.sma-america.com/>

This email and any attachments thereto may contain SMA America, LLC confidential, privileged and private material for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any attachments thereto. Thank you.

[cid:image003.png at 01CE517D.21006940]<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQWzPuyqhzo&feature=youtu.be>

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of James Gustafson
Sent: Monday, July 29, 2013 2:44 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply

Hello Solar Folk,

I'm wondering if it is possible combine the secure power source outputs of two SMA SBTL-22's in series to run a 240v load, like a small well pump. Does anyone have any ideas about the feasibility of this concept?

Thank You Much,
Djibril

On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:46 AM, Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com<mailto:swingjunkie at gmail.com>> wrote:

Nick,

I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed. If the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.

I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually installed them.

With Regards
Carl Adams
SunRock Solar
From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com<mailto:nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com<mailto:swingjunkie at gmail.com>>

I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that it won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com<mailto:swingjunkie at gmail.com>>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>>


Hello Wrenches,

I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for upcoming projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good selling point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from those who have already installed these units.

Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.

My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen, was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local supply house and make the connections.

One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.

Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the installer is to use to field install the SPS.


Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who have already deployed these units.

Carl Adams
SunRock Solar



_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

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www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>

Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>




--

Cordially,

Nick Soleil

Field Applications Engineer

Enphase Energy

Mobile: (707) 321-2937



Enphase Commercial Solar. Limitless.<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>


<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>

1420 North McDowell

Petaluma, CA 94954

www.enphase.com<http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>

P: (707) 763-4784 x7267

F: (707) 763-0784

E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com<mailto:nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>

Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

"Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless! ."

- William McDonough

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.




_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>

Change email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

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Gary Willett
2013-07-22 22:33:26 UTC
Permalink
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James Gustafson
2013-07-29 21:44:05 UTC
Permalink
Hello Solar Folk,

I'm wondering if it is possible combine the secure power source outputs of
two SMA SBTL-22's in series to run a 240v load, like a small well pump.
Does anyone have any ideas about the feasibility of this concept?

Thank You Much,
Djibril


On Mon, Jul 22, 2013 at 5:46 AM, Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Nick,
>
> I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed.
> If the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a
> limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no
> batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.
>
> I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I
> would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually
> installed them.
>
> With Regards
> Carl Adams
> SunRock Solar
>
> From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>
> Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
> Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
> To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
>
>
> I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that
> it won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is
> available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
> Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
>
>
>
> Hello Wrenches,
>
> I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for
> upcoming projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good
> selling point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from
> those who have already installed these units.
>
> Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.
>
> My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in
> the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen,
> was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is
> functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is
> for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local
> supply house and make the connections.
>
> One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product
> availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power
> Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.
>
> Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL
> installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the
> term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference
> was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit
> breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from
> German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the
> installer is to use to field install the SPS.
>
>
> Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who
> have already deployed these units.
>
> Carl Adams
> SunRock Solar
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Cordially,
>
> *Nick Soleil*
>
> *Field Applications Engineer
> *
>
> *Enphase Energy*
>
> Mobile: (707) 321-2937
>
>
> **
>
> *Enphase Commercial Solar.* *Limitless.*<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>
>
> *
> *<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>
>
> 1420 North McDowell
>
> Petaluma, CA 94954
>
> www.enphase.com <http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>
>
> P: (707) 763-4784 x7267
>
> F: (707) 763-0784
>
> E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com
>
> [image: nabcep logo] Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300
>
> ?Don?t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It?s just that I prefer fusion
> to fission. And it just so happens that there?s an enormous fusion reactor
> safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could
> ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it?s wireless! .?
>
> - William McDonough
>
> This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
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>
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Carl Adams
2013-07-19 19:48:30 UTC
Permalink
Hello Wrenches,

I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for upcoming
projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good selling
point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from those
who have already installed these units.

Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.

My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in
the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen,
was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is
functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is
for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local
supply house and make the connections.

One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product
availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power
Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.

Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL
installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the
term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference
was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit
breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from
German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the
installer is to use to field install the SPS.


Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who have
already deployed these units.

Carl Adams
SunRock Solar
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Carl Adams
2013-07-22 11:46:10 UTC
Permalink
Nick,

I guess I don't see this as a weakness but rather operating as designed.
If the design intent was to allow the grid tied solar array to provide a
limited power source during a grid outage, during daylight hours, with no
batteries required, it seems this hits the mark.

I know these units went through some beta testing early this year, so I
would still appreciate any feedback from any wrenches who have actually
installed them.

With Regards
Carl Adams
SunRock Solar

From: Nick Soleil <nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 9:45 PM
Subject: Fwd: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>


I understand that is a good selling point, but the major weakness is that
it won't work at night and only will provide the amount of power that is
available from the sun, so not so good for stormy conditions.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Carl Adams <swingjunkie at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 19, 2013 at 12:48 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: SMA Secure Power Supply
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>




Hello Wrenches,

I'm considering the new SunnyBoy SB3,4,5000 TL-22-US inverters for upcoming
projects. The new secure power supply feature seems like a good selling
point. At this point I am most interested in field experience from those
who have already installed these units.

Here is what I have learned from reading up a bit.

My initial impression was that the electrical switch and outlet shown in
the tech bulletin, youtube video, and discussed in webinars I have seen,
was an actual "hardware product option". This is not the case. It is
functionality available in the unit as points of connection. The intent is
for the installer to pickup the necessary switch and outlet at the local
supply house and make the connections.

One other thing I learned is that between early marketing and product
availability the "functionality" name was changed from "Emergency Power
Suppy (EPS)" to "Secure Power Supply (SPS)" due to NEC code issues.

Another point of confusion for me was in reading the SB3k - 5kTL
installation manual. In the manual, the discussion of the SPS uses the
term "miniature circuit breaker". My initial thought was this reference
was to the backfed circuit breaker for the inverter, or a separate circuit
breaker integral to the inverter. Not the case, just bad translation from
German to English. The reference, is to the off the shelf switch, the
installer is to use to field install the SPS.


Hope this is helpful, and again I'd like to here from those of you who have
already deployed these units.

Carl Adams
SunRock Solar



_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Home Power magazine

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

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http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

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Check out participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org





--

Cordially,

*Nick Soleil*

*Field Applications Engineer
*

*Enphase Energy*

Mobile: (707) 321-2937


**

*Enphase Commercial Solar.*
*Limitless.*<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>

*
*<http://www.enphase.com/commercial?utm_source=email&utm_medium=sig&utm_campaign=Comm2012>

1420 North McDowell

Petaluma, CA 94954

www.enphase.com <http://www.enphaseenergy.com/>

P: (707) 763-4784 x7267

F: (707) 763-0784

E: nsoleil at enphaseenergy.com

[image: nabcep logo] Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

?Don?t get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It?s just that I prefer fusion
to fission. And it just so happens that there?s an enormous fusion reactor
safely banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could
ever use in just about 8 minutes. And it?s wireless! .?

- William McDonough

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s)
and may contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are
not an intended recipient, you may not review, use, copy, disclose or
distribute this message. If you received this message in error, please
contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the
original message.
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