Discussion:
Cooler Modules
(too old to reply)
Mark Frye
2014-09-11 03:43:18 UTC
Permalink
Folks,

Two identical PV modules are mount in an identical fashion and exposed
to identical irradiance.

One module is open circuit. The other is connected to a load and
producing power.

Is there a difference in the temperature of the two modules? If so,
which one is cooler?

Mark Frye
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
Bill Hoffer
2014-09-11 04:04:02 UTC
Permalink
Mark

Loaded modules will have hotter cells. I know this from searching for bad
cells with a thermal camera. At open circuit I could not see a difference,
but short circuit or loaded I could see 20 - 30 C increase in mismatched
cells .

Bill

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:43 PM, Mark Frye <markf at berkeleysolar.com> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Two identical PV modules are mount in an identical fashion and exposed to
> identical irradiance.
>
> One module is open circuit. The other is connected to a load and producing
> power.
>
> Is there a difference in the temperature of the two modules? If so, which
> one is cooler?
>
> Mark Frye
> Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>


--
William Hoffer
161 SE Fourth Ave
P.O. Box 1823
White Salmon, WA 98672-1823
sunengser at gmail.com <bhoffer at sunergyengineeringservices.com>
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William Miller
2014-09-11 04:10:27 UTC
Permalink
Colleagues:



Thanks for the scintillating and relevant discussion. This brings up a
question on my radar: Will unloaded modules fail sooner than loaded
modules?



Thanks again. Great Group!



William





Gradient Cap_mini
Lic 773985
<http://www.millersolar.com/> millersolar.com
805-438-5600



From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Bill Hoffer
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:04 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cooler Modules



Mark



Loaded modules will have hotter cells. I know this from searching for bad
cells with a thermal camera. At open circuit I could not see a difference,
but short circuit or loaded I could see 20 - 30 C increase in mismatched
cells .



Bill



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Mac Lewis
2014-09-11 04:23:05 UTC
Permalink
Mark,
This question depends on what where you draw your system boundary. If you
are analyzing a module in its entirety, the module that is converting
irradiance energy into electrical current will be cooler overall (less
thermal energy) because less of that irradiance energy is turning into
thermal energy. However, if you look at individual cells, the module that
is conducting current can transfer some of that electrical energy into
thermal energy in bad cells, which will make localized heating.
Effectively, the modules producing useful work outside of your boundary
won't be be converting all of that radiation energy into thermal energy
inside of your boundary.

Hence, open circuit module warmer than conducting module.

This assumes that the only energy entering the system is from radiation,
and that energy can leave the system as electrical energy.

I like the question

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 10:10 PM, William Miller <william at millersolar.com>
wrote:

> Colleagues:
>
>
>
> Thanks for the scintillating and relevant discussion. This brings up a
> question on my radar: Will unloaded modules fail sooner than loaded
> modules?
>
>
>
> Thanks again. Great Group!
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
>
>
> [image: Gradient Cap_mini]
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>
> 805-438-5600
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Bill Hoffer
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:04 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cooler Modules
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
> Loaded modules will have hotter cells. I know this from searching for bad
> cells with a thermal camera. At open circuit I could not see a difference,
> but short circuit or loaded I could see 20 - 30 C increase in mismatched
> cells .
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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>
>
>


--



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo s? que no s? nada." -S?crates*
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Bill Loesch
2014-09-11 15:55:06 UTC
Permalink
Bill

What kind of thermal camera are you using for this kind of inspection?
Satisfied? Comments?

Thanks,

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094

On 10-Sep-14 11:04 PM, Bill Hoffer wrote:
> Mark
>
> Loaded modules will have hotter cells. I know this from searching for
> bad cells with a thermal camera. At open circuit I could not see a
> difference, but short circuit or loaded I could see 20 - 30 C increase
> in mismatched cells .
>
> Bill
>
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:43 PM, Mark Frye <markf at berkeleysolar.com
> <mailto:markf at berkeleysolar.com>> wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Two identical PV modules are mount in an identical fashion and
> exposed to identical irradiance.
>
> One module is open circuit. The other is connected to a load and
> producing power.
>
> Is there a difference in the temperature of the two modules? If
> so, which one is cooler?
>
> Mark Frye
> Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
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>
>
>
> --
> William Hoffer
> 161 SE Fourth Ave
> P.O. Box 1823
> White Salmon, WA 98672-1823
> sunengser at gmail.com <mailto:bhoffer at sunergyengineeringservices.com>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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Jerry Shafer
2014-09-11 05:06:58 UTC
Permalink
I have had a 30 k with 12 aurora magnatec inverters and every time I get a
failure ( Magnatec with short the DC together) and you can feel the modules
are hotter then ones under normal operation, have not compared to VOC
Jerry

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Mark Frye <markf at berkeleysolar.com> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Two identical PV modules are mount in an identical fashion and exposed to
> identical irradiance.
>
> One module is open circuit. The other is connected to a load and producing
> power.
>
> Is there a difference in the temperature of the two modules? If so, which
> one is cooler?
>
> Mark Frye
> Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
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Jarmo.Venalainen
2014-09-11 16:20:45 UTC
Permalink
Hi:

I went to do some training at a large utility scale site, (22MW) in
Imperial Valley California a few years ago and was curious about how hot
the modules were. So, I touched the back side of loaded and unloaded
modules.

The loaded modules were cooler. Not what I expected. I thought the
current flow of 9A would cause heating, but on further thought from a
physics point of view it makes sense. Electrons carry 60% of the heat
flow in metals which removes some heat and the cells are also converting
and thereby removing about 15% of the solar energy from the cells.

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Slab+City,+CA+92233,+USA/@33.2450229,-115.4978262,1395m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x80d0b20527ca5ebf:0xa7f292448cbd1988

JARMO
_____________________________________________________________________________________


Jarmo Venalainen | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | CANADA |
Training & Development Specialist - Senior
Phone: +604-422-2528 | Fax: +604-420-1591 | Mobile: +604-505-0291
Email: jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com | Site: www.SEsolar.com
| Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1


*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail




From:
Mark Frye <markf at berkeleysolar.com>
To:
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>,
Date:
09/10/2014 08:43 PM
Subject:
[RE-wrenches] Cooler Modules
Sent by:
"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>



Folks,

Two identical PV modules are mount in an identical fashion and exposed
to identical irradiance.

One module is open circuit. The other is connected to a load and
producing power.

Is there a difference in the temperature of the two modules? If so,
which one is cooler?

Mark Frye
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

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Exeltech
2014-09-11 19:28:01 UTC
Permalink
Wrenches,

Bill Hoffer's comments below are correct relative to "hot spots". Mac's comments are also correct relative to overall PV module temperature under open-circuit versus "loaded" conditions.

To Bill's point, if one or more cells are fractured, or buss solder bonds or other connections are defective, the increased resistance at those points will result in significantly increased spot temperatures when current is flowing. The higher the current, the hotter the spot temperature.

When no current is flowing, the energy that would otherwise be converted to electricity has to go somewhere .. and in that case it becomes heat.

Conversely, buss conductors and connections operate hotter on a localized basis when a PV module is connected to a load. Overall, however, the mean temperature of the entire module is cooler when conducting than when open circuit. Yes, this goes against what one might call "intuitive", but it's fact. This was reported in a study conducted by Matt Mueller (et. al.) of NREL.

Multiple degradation mechanisms exist within PV modules. Generally, the most common failure mode is associated with thermal cycling. Given the temperature differential between open-circuit and fully loaded module operation, it could be argued there's an effect on overall module life either way, but the effects of either are difficult to quantify. Temperature cycling still remains "king" in that realm.

Additional information is available on the NREL and Sandia websites.


Regards to all,


Dan Lepinski




--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 9/10/14, Mac Lewis <maclewis1 at gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cooler Modules
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2014, 11:23 PM

Mark,

This question depends on what where you draw your system boundary. If you are analyzing a module in its entirety, the module that is converting irradiance energy into electrical current will be cooler overall (less thermal energy) because less of that irradiance energy is turning into thermal energy. However, if you look at individual cells, the module that is conducting current can transfer some of that electrical energy into thermal energy in bad cells, which will make localized heating.

Effectively, the modules producing useful work outside of your boundary won't be be converting all of that radiation energy into thermal energy inside of your boundary.

Hence, open circuit module warmer than conducting module.

This assumes that the only energy entering the system is from radiation, and that energy can leave the system as electrical energy.

I like the question


On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 10:10 PM, William Miller <william at millersolar.com> wrote:

Colleagues:

Thanks for the scintillating and relevant discussion. This brings up a question on my radar: Will unloaded modules fail sooner than loaded modules?

Thanks again. Great Group!


William

Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Hoffer
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2014 9:04 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cooler Modules

Mark

Loaded modules will have hotter cells. I know this from searching for bad cells with a thermal camera. At open circuit I could not see a difference, but short circuit or loaded I could see 20 - 30 C increase in mismatched cells .

Bill
frenergy
2014-09-12 12:55:50 UTC
Permalink
Wrenches,

I just replaced a failed XW..... is the XW BTS compatible with an FM60? Thanks in advance,

Bill


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Steve Higgins
2014-09-12 13:22:55 UTC
Permalink
Bill,

No, the Xantrex Temp sensors are not compatible with the Outback temp sensors.

You'll have to get an Outback BTS for the FM60.


________________________________
From: RE-wrenches [re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] on behalf of frenergy [frenergy at psln.com]
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 5:55 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xanthrax XW BTS

Wrenches,

I just replaced a failed XW..... is the XW BTS compatible with an FM60? Thanks in advance,

Bill

[cid:C4D249199CAB46158E27F168A7A4AB9B at D8XG8YH1]


Steve Higgins
Technical Services Manager
P: +1.902.597.4020
M: +1.206.790.5840
F: +1.902.597.8447
Surrette Battery Company
Exclusive manufacturer of
[cid:rollse5ac78]<http://www.rollsbattery.com>



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Jarmo.Venalainen
2014-09-12 15:56:06 UTC
Permalink
Hi:

Sorry to hear you had such trouble with the XW.

Yes, the battery monitor can be used with battery based system. The
monitoring and logging is done in its own internal memory.

Here's a link to the user docs,

http://solar.schneider-electric.com/product/conext-battery-monitor/

JARMO
_____________________________________________________________________________________


Jarmo Venalainen | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | CANADA |
Training & Development Specialist - Senior
Phone: +604-422-2528 | Fax: +604-420-1591 | Mobile: +604-505-0291
Email: jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com | Site: www.SEsolar.com
| Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1


*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail




From:
"frenergy" <frenergy at psln.com>
To:
"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>,
Date:
09/12/2014 05:56 AM
Subject:
[RE-wrenches] Xanthrax XW BTS
Sent by:
"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>



Wrenches,

I just replaced a failed XW..... is the XW BTS compatible with an
FM60? Thanks in advance,

Bill




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This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
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Jarmo.Venalainen
2014-09-12 17:42:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi:

It was pointed out to me that I misread the question about the XW BTS.

No, the XW BTS will not work with the FM60.

My apologies to everyone, I will read e-mails more carefully in the
future.

JARMO
_____________________________________________________________________________________


Jarmo Venalainen | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | CANADA |
Training & Development Specialist - Senior
Phone: +604-422-2528 | Fax: +604-420-1591 | Mobile: +604-505-0291
Email: jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com | Site: www.SEsolar.com
| Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1


*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail




From:
Jarmo.Venalainen at schneider-electric.com
To:
RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>,
Date:
09/12/2014 08:56 AM
Subject:
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xanthrax XW BTS
Sent by:
"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>



Hi:

Sorry to hear you had such trouble with the XW.

Yes, the battery monitor can be used with battery based system. The
monitoring and logging is done in its own internal memory.

Here's a link to the user docs,

http://solar.schneider-electric.com/product/conext-battery-monitor/

JARMO
_____________________________________________________________________________________


Jarmo Venalainen | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | CANADA |
Training & Development Specialist - Senior
Phone: +604-422-2528 | Fax: +604-420-1591 | Mobile: +604-505-0291
Email: jarmo.venalainen at schneider-electric.com | Site: www.SEsolar.com
| Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1


*** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail



From:
"frenergy" <frenergy at psln.com>
To:
"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>,
Date:
09/12/2014 05:56 AM
Subject:
[RE-wrenches] Xanthrax XW BTS
Sent by:
"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org>




Wrenches,

I just replaced a failed XW..... is the XW BTS compatible with an
FM60? Thanks in advance,

Bill




______________________________________________________________________
This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service.
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Jerry Shafer
2014-09-12 21:48:18 UTC
Permalink
No it will not work right
On Sep 12, 2014 2:56 AM, "frenergy" <frenergy at psln.com> wrote:

> Wrenches,
>
> I just replaced a failed XW..... is the XW BTS compatible with an
> FM60? Thanks in advance,
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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boB
2014-09-12 22:10:13 UTC
Permalink
2 cents here...

As far as I remember, OB is 10K Ohms (at 25degrees C), MidNite is 10K,
Magnum is 100K and Xantrex/Trace/Schneider is 100K

Magnum has a couple of swapped lines compared to the other BTS' but
~may~ or may not
work for others in some instances.

boB


On 9/12/2014 2:48 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>
> No it will not work right
>
> On Sep 12, 2014 2:56 AM, "frenergy" <frenergy at psln.com
> <mailto:frenergy at psln.com>> wrote:
>
> Wrenches,
> I just replaced a failed XW..... is the XW BTS compatible
> with an FM60? Thanks in advance,
> Bill
>

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All Solar, Inc.
2014-09-13 01:40:17 UTC
Permalink
Pretty sure Midnite sent out some of the classics with a Magnum BTS. Due to part shortage.?
Installed one in June this year.

Jeremy Rodriguez,
President

All Solar, Inc.
1463 M
Penrose Colorado 81240
719-372-3808 office
719-372-3804 fax
www.asolarelectric.com

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!

> On Sep 12, 2014, at 4:10 PM, "boB at midnitesolar.com" <boB at midnitesolar.com> wrote:
>
>
> 2 cents here...
>
> As far as I remember, OB is 10K Ohms (at 25degrees C), MidNite is 10K,
> Magnum is 100K and Xantrex/Trace/Schneider is 100K
>
> Magnum has a couple of swapped lines compared to the other BTS' but ~may~ or may not
> work for others in some instances.
>
> boB
>
>
>> On 9/12/2014 2:48 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>> No it will not work right
>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2014 2:56 AM, "frenergy" <frenergy at psln.com> wrote:
>>> Wrenches,
>>>
>>> I just replaced a failed XW..... is the XW BTS compatible with an FM60? Thanks in advance,
>>>
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> <mime-attachment.jpg>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
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>
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boB
2014-09-13 01:51:12 UTC
Permalink
On 9/12/2014 6:40 PM, All Solar, Inc. wrote:
> Pretty sure Midnite sent out some of the classics with a Magnum BTS.
> Due to part shortage.?
> Installed one in June this year.


Yep. Gotta stay on top of this stuff, especially when building in the
good ole US of A !

Luckily, it was a short lived issue. But, different and kinda fun in a
way.

boB



>
> Jeremy Rodriguez,
> President
>
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1463 M
> Penrose Colorado 81240
> 719-372-3808 office
> 719-372-3804 fax
> www.asolarelectric.com <http://www.asolarelectric.com>
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
>
> On Sep 12, 2014, at 4:10 PM, "boB at midnitesolar.com
> <mailto:boB at midnitesolar.com>" <boB at midnitesolar.com
> <mailto:boB at midnitesolar.com>> wrote:
>
>>
>> 2 cents here...
>>
>> As far as I remember, OB is 10K Ohms (at 25degrees C), MidNite is 10K,
>> Magnum is 100K and Xantrex/Trace/Schneider is 100K
>>
>> Magnum has a couple of swapped lines compared to the other BTS' but
>> ~may~ or may not
>> work for others in some instances.
>>
>> boB
>>
>>
>> On 9/12/2014 2:48 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>>>
>>> No it will not work right
>>>
>>> On Sep 12, 2014 2:56 AM, "frenergy" <frenergy at psln.com
>>> <mailto:frenergy at psln.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Wrenches,
>>> I just replaced a failed XW..... is the XW BTS
>>> compatible with an FM60? Thanks in advance,
>>> Bill
>>> <mime-attachment.jpg>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
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frenergy
2014-09-13 03:28:33 UTC
Permalink
Wrenches,

Thanks for all the response regarding the OB BTS. Fortunately I have since found an old OB version banging around so will head back to the install to swap it out.

Bill


----- Original Message -----
From: boB at midnitesolar.com
To: RE-wrenches
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] BTS


On 9/12/2014 6:40 PM, All Solar, Inc. wrote:

Pretty sure Midnite sent out some of the classics with a Magnum BTS. Due to part shortage.?
Installed one in June this year.



Yep. Gotta stay on top of this stuff, especially when building in the good ole US of A !

Luckily, it was a short lived issue. But, different and kinda fun in a way.

boB





Jeremy Rodriguez,
President



All Solar, Inc.
1463 M

Penrose Colorado 81240
719-372-3808 office
719-372-3804 fax
www.asolarelectric.com


Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!

On Sep 12, 2014, at 4:10 PM, "boB at midnitesolar.com" <boB at midnitesolar.com> wrote:



2 cents here...

As far as I remember, OB is 10K Ohms (at 25degrees C), MidNite is 10K,
Magnum is 100K and Xantrex/Trace/Schneider is 100K

Magnum has a couple of swapped lines compared to the other BTS' but ~may~ or may not
work for others in some instances.

boB


On 9/12/2014 2:48 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

No it will not work right

On Sep 12, 2014 2:56 AM, "frenergy" <frenergy at psln.com> wrote:

Wrenches,

I just replaced a failed XW..... is the XW BTS compatible with an FM60? Thanks in advance,

Bill

<mime-attachment.jpg>





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Bill Hoffer
2014-09-14 15:51:49 UTC
Permalink
Bill

Flir E40, works well and has some good features that make it easy to write reports with the software. E60 is similar with additional features, but a little more expensive. IMHO any of the E - series is a pretty good bet.
Bill

Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID

Bill Loesch <solar1online at charter.net> wrote:

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boB
2014-09-14 23:30:58 UTC
Permalink
Absolutely right, Bill.
We have a couple of these cameras and they are very handy.

These cameras are also good for detecting high currents through fuses
(if you can see the
fuses) and bad connections, etc.

We had a Chinese module laying around (Astronergy 250W) and it was
sunny so I took a
few pix. Short circuit and open circuit.

You can see at least 15 to 20 degrees C difference sometimes. I will
have to check
some other modules but I don't know if any manufacturers match cells ?

These pix are from the back of the module. You have to be careful of
reflections more
from the front.
The temperature at the top-left is where the crosshair cursor is and the
right scale is maximum (whitest) temperature and lowest (darkest)
temperature
in view.


http://www.eskimo.com/~bgudgel/IR_0050.jpg

http://www.eskimo.com/~bgudgel/IR_0094.jpg


Here is one with the module open circuit. Note high and low
temperatures are around 44 C.

http://www.eskimo.com/~bgudgel/IR_0030.jpg



On 9/14/2014 8:51 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote:
> Bill
>
> Flir E40, works well and has some good features that make it easy to
> write reports with the software. E60 is similar with additional
> features, but a little more expensive. IMHO any of the E - series is
> a pretty good bet.
> Bill
>
> /Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID/
>
>
> Bill Loesch <solar1online at charter.net> wrote:
>
>
> Bill
>
> What kind of thermal camera are you using for this kind of inspection?
> Satisfied? Comments?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill Loesch
> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
> 314 631 1094
> On 10-Sep-14 11:04 PM, Bill Hoffer wrote:
>> Mark
>>
>> Loaded modules will have hotter cells. I know this from searching for
>> bad cells with a thermal camera. At open circuit I could not see a
>> difference, but short circuit or loaded I could see 20 - 30 C
>> increase in mismatched cells .
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 9:43 PM, Mark Frye <markf at berkeleysolar.com
>> <mailto:markf at berkeleysolar.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Two identical PV modules are mount in an identical fashion and
>> exposed to identical irradiance.
>>
>> One module is open circuit. The other is connected to a load and
>> producing power.
>>
>> Is there a difference in the temperature of the two modules? If
>> so, which one is cooler?
>>
>> Mark Frye
>> Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>>
>>
>> --
>> William Hoffer
>> 161 SE Fourth Ave
>> P.O. Box 1823
>> White Salmon, WA 98672-1823
>> sunengser at gmail.com <mailto:bhoffer at sunergyengineeringservices.com>

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Michael Welch
2014-09-14 23:54:02 UTC
Permalink
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Dan Fink
2014-09-15 00:01:15 UTC
Permalink
But no Android FLIR One yet. Arrrgh!

Dan Fink
Buckville Energy
IREC Certified Instructor? for:
~ PV Installation Professional
~ Small Wind Installer
NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education Providers?
970.672.4342



On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Michael Welch <
michael.welch at re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> For the iphone, under $400.
>
> http://flir.com/flirone/
>
>
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boB
2014-09-15 00:16:26 UTC
Permalink
On 9/14/2014 5:01 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
> But no Android FLIR One yet. Arrrgh!

Supposedly Flir will be announcing something for the Android next year.

Right now you can get this Android add on but it's expensive... ($999 ?)

http://therm-app.com/

The lenses are made of germanium and they are just not cheap. I am
surprised that
a Flir-One will be available for under $400 ! If it's any good (and
from Flir, it probably
is), this is great !

boB




>
> Dan Fink
> Buckville Energy
> IREC Certified Instructor^(TM) for:
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education Providers^(TM)
> 970.672.4342
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Michael Welch
> <michael.welch at re-wrenches.org <mailto:michael.welch at re-wrenches.org>>
> wrote:
>
> For the iphone, under $400.
>
> http://flir.com/flirone/
>
> <http://flir.com/flirone/>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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Bill Loesch
2014-09-15 14:18:45 UTC
Permalink
boB,

I am also surprised that FLIR was willing to provide a sub entry level
product. You might be aware FLIR was willing to show results of the
iPhone add-on using "simulated images". Most recently, FLIR has marketed
another FLIR (high end) product reportedly capable of identifying carbon
monoxide, see link below.

http://www.flir.com/thermography/americas/us/view/?id=51857

Unfortunately, according to a nationally recognized CO expert,
THIS IS A VERY, VERY DECEPTIVE ADVERTISEMENT.
THEY OBVIOUSLY SELECTED C O TO "PIN POINT" BECAUSE IT WOULD RESULT IN
GETTING THE MOST ATTENTION. THE MAXIMUM "BANG FOR THEIR BUCK?.

IN MY MIND FROM THIS DAY FORWARD FLIR WILL BE "CROOKS" ! ! !

Gentlemen: While FLIR may build some great thermal imaging products
using their own detectors, this kind of marketing hype detracts from
their credibility entirely. I hope the smart phone add-on does what it
promises to do.

Caveat emptor,

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094

On 14-Sep-14 7:16 PM, boB at midnitesolar.com wrote:
> On 9/14/2014 5:01 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
>> But no Android FLIR One yet. Arrrgh!
>
> Supposedly Flir will be announcing something for the Android next year.
>
> Right now you can get this Android add on but it's expensive... ($999 ?)
>
> http://therm-app.com/
>
> The lenses are made of germanium and they are just not cheap. I am
> surprised that
> a Flir-One will be available for under $400 ! If it's any good (and
> from Flir, it probably
> is), this is great !
>
> boB
>
>
>
>
>>
>> Dan Fink
>> Buckville Energy
>> IREC Certified Instructor^(TM) for:
>> ~ PV Installation Professional
>> ~ Small Wind Installer
>> NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education Providers^(TM)
>> 970.672.4342
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 5:54 PM, Michael Welch
>> <michael.welch at re-wrenches.org
>> <mailto:michael.welch at re-wrenches.org>> wrote:
>>
>> For the iphone, under $400.
>>
>> http://flir.com/flirone/
>>
>> <http://flir.com/flirone/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
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