Discussion:
Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting with Outback VFX Off Grid
(too old to reply)
dan
2014-10-21 14:54:12 UTC
Permalink
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/90ec274c/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: sigimg0
Type: image/png
Size: 25138 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/90ec274c/attachment-0001.png>
Wayne Irwin
2014-10-21 17:07:20 UTC
Permalink
We have VFX systems using Fujitsu and Gree mini-splits with no issues.
FYI - All systems have X240's for balancing.

Wayne Irwin,
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.

Wayne at PureEnergySolar.com


http://PureEnergySolar.com
http://SolarChargingStation.net
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299
Fax


The Sun Is Always Shining!

The
content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
not the intended
recipient and have received this message in error, any use or
distribution is
prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and delete this
message from your computer system. Thank you.

From: dan at foxfire-energy.com
To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 07:54:12 -0700
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting with Outback VFX Off Grid

Anyone else had issues with Mitsubishi Mini Split heat pumps fighting with Outback VFX off grid inverters? Everything is brand new. Outback VFX7248, three separate heat pumps. The heat pumps shut down reporting multiple / confusing input commands. The heat pump guys want to blame the power system. I'm thinking bad Sushi. Thanks db


Dan Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy Systems
(802)-483-2564
www.Foxfire-Energy.com
NABCEP #092907-44
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/f9051749/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: sigimg0
Type: image/png
Size: 25138 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/f9051749/attachment-0001.png>
Jerry Shafer
2014-10-21 17:12:45 UTC
Permalink
Can ypu bypass the OB and run off of a good geni
On Oct 21, 2014 10:01 AM, <dan at foxfire-energy.com> wrote:

> Anyone else had issues with Mitsubishi Mini Split heat pumps fighting with
> Outback VFX off grid inverters? Everything is brand new. Outback VFX7248,
> three separate heat pumps. The heat pumps shut down reporting multiple /
> confusing input commands. The heat pump guys want to blame the power
> system. I'm thinking bad Sushi. Thanks db
>
>
> Dan Brown
> Foxfire Energy Corp.
> Renewable Energy Systems
> (802)-483-2564
> www.Foxfire-Energy.com
> NABCEP #092907-44
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/d41987f4/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: sigimg0
Type: image/png
Size: 25138 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/d41987f4/attachment-0001.png>
Ray Walters
2014-10-21 17:23:31 UTC
Permalink
The Outback is not a perfect Sinewave. It still has tiny steps in the
wave, and when electronics have a problem, its usually with the wave
form as it crosses zero voltage . Instead of being instantaneous, it
has a few milliseconds of time the wave is at the zero crossing, which
can drive some electronics nuts. I don't understand the issue beyond
that, but apparently the electronics use the zero crossing for timers
and synchronizing, and they're looking for an instant "click", not a smear.
Do the heat pumps work with the generator? Even though generators can
have more harmonic distortion, they do usually have a clean zero crossing.
If this is the case, I'm afraid I don't have a cure. We used to use
capacitors, but Dan from Exeltech just poo pooed that fix in another
recent thread, so I don't have any other tricks up my sleeve.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 10/21/2014 8:54 AM, dan at foxfire-energy.com wrote:
> Anyone else had issues with Mitsubishi Mini Split heat pumps fighting
> with Outback VFX off grid inverters? Everything is brand new. Outback
> VFX7248, three separate heat pumps. The heat pumps shut down reporting
> multiple / confusing input commands. The heat pump guys want to blame
> the power system. I'm thinking bad Sushi. Thanks db
>
>
> Dan Brown
> Foxfire Energy Corp.
> Renewable Energy Systems
> (802)-483-2564
> www.Foxfire-Energy.com <http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com>
> NABCEP #092907-44
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/f3a639a8/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/png
Size: 25138 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/f3a639a8/attachment-0001.png>
Wayne Irwin
2014-10-22 00:52:25 UTC
Permalink
We have found that the mini-splits have only had issues while gen sets are running.
In some cases (when on genset) the mini's will run irregularly or flash a fault status.

Rather than try to have the mini's run on gen power we install dc chargers to charge batts from gen power.

My thought is that the AC Installer either has something wrong or the Mitsubishi's have very tight parameters.
Be sure that the wiring from the inside unit to the outside unit are correct. Should be only three wires (plus gnd). Very easy to check.

Possible alternative solution would be look into the cost of installing a Gree since they are the least expensive.



Wayne Irwin,
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.

Wayne at PureEnergySolar.com


http://PureEnergySolar.com
http://SolarChargingStation.net
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299
Fax
352 316-1637 Cell

The Sun Is Always Shining!

The
content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are
not the intended
recipient and have received this message in error, any use or
distribution is
prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and delete this
message from your computer system. Thank you.

Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 11:23:31 -0600
From: ray at solarray.com
To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting with Outback VFX Off Grid






The Outback is not a perfect Sinewave.
It still has tiny steps in the wave, and when electronics have a
problem, its usually with the wave form as it crosses zero voltage
. Instead of being instantaneous, it has a few milliseconds of
time the wave is at the zero crossing, which can drive some
electronics nuts. I don't understand the issue beyond that, but
apparently the electronics use the zero crossing for timers and
synchronizing, and they're looking for an instant "click", not a
smear.

Do the heat pumps work with the generator? Even though generators
can have more harmonic distortion, they do usually have a clean
zero crossing.

If this is the case, I'm afraid I don't have a cure. We used to
use capacitors, but Dan from Exeltech just poo pooed that fix in
another recent thread, so I don't have any other tricks up my
sleeve.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 10/21/2014 8:54 AM, dan at foxfire-energy.com wrote:



Anyone else had issues with Mitsubishi Mini Split heat
pumps fighting with Outback VFX off grid inverters? Everything
is brand new. Outback VFX7248, three separate heat pumps. The
heat pumps shut down reporting multiple / confusing input
commands. The heat pump guys want to blame the power system.
I'm thinking bad Sushi. Thanks db







Dan Brown

Foxfire Energy Corp.

Renewable Energy Systems

(802)-483-2564

www.Foxfire-Energy.com

NABCEP #092907-44







_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org








_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/99c02c55/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: ATT00001
Type: image/png
Size: 25138 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/99c02c55/attachment.png>
Christopher Warfel
2014-10-21 17:49:12 UTC
Permalink
This is probably off topic, but I don't know where else to access this
list's amount of experience.

IF you know of companies that will lease solar electric systems in Rhode
Island, would you contact me off list. We have several not for profit
sites that cannot use the federal tax credit.

Thank you, Chris

--
Christopher Warfel, President
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
401-466-8978
Jerry Shafer
2014-10-22 01:06:34 UTC
Permalink
How big?? call me @8082912832
On Oct 21, 2014 4:01 PM, "Christopher Warfel" <
cwarfel at entech-engineering.com> wrote:

> This is probably off topic, but I don't know where else to access this
> list's amount of experience.
>
> IF you know of companies that will lease solar electric systems in Rhode
> Island, would you contact me off list. We have several not for profit
> sites that cannot use the federal tax credit.
>
> Thank you, Chris
>
> --
> Christopher Warfel, President
> ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
> 401-466-8978
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/4f727d38/attachment.htm>
Christopher Warfel
2014-10-22 13:08:22 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jerry, Just 20kW. I will call you this afternoon. Thank you, Chris
On 10/21/2014 9:06 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>
> How big?? call me @8082912832
>
> On Oct 21, 2014 4:01 PM, "Christopher Warfel"
> <cwarfel at entech-engineering.com
> <mailto:cwarfel at entech-engineering.com>> wrote:
>
> This is probably off topic, but I don't know where else to access
> this list's amount of experience.
>
> IF you know of companies that will lease solar electric systems in
> Rhode Island, would you contact me off list. We have several not
> for profit sites that cannot use the federal tax credit.
>
> Thank you, Chris
>
> --
> Christopher Warfel, President
> ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
> 401-466-8978 <tel:401-466-8978>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>

--
Christopher Warfel, President
ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
401-466-8978

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141022/312fdbb5/attachment.htm>
Jason Szumlanski
2014-10-21 19:52:05 UTC
Permalink
I have one system out there with a Mitsu mini-split unit on four VFX3648
inverters, and no reported issues.

Jason Szumlanski
Fafco Solar

Jason Szumlanski

On Tue, Oct 21, 2014 at 10:54 AM, <dan at foxfire-energy.com> wrote:

> Anyone else had issues with Mitsubishi Mini Split heat pumps fighting with
> Outback VFX off grid inverters? Everything is brand new. Outback VFX7248,
> three separate heat pumps. The heat pumps shut down reporting multiple /
> confusing input commands. The heat pump guys want to blame the power
> system. I'm thinking bad Sushi. Thanks db
>
>
> Dan Brown
> Foxfire Energy Corp.
> Renewable Energy Systems
> (802)-483-2564
> www.Foxfire-Energy.com
> NABCEP #092907-44
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/6b38d4de/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: sigimg0
Type: image/png
Size: 25138 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/6b38d4de/attachment-0001.png>
frenergy
2014-10-22 04:02:15 UTC
Permalink
Wrenches,

I can't seem to find a reference to the heights allowable for inverter installs, either minimum or maximum (need both). For that matter, AC combiners, DC discos, any switchgear related to the inverter(s).

Any help appreciated.

Bill
Feather River Solar Electric
solar powered since 1982
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/6ec9d15b/attachment.htm>
Bob-O Schultze
2014-10-22 04:28:31 UTC
Permalink
If it has some sort of switch or CB, the top of the handle cannot be higher than 6'7". As to the lower limit, I think that would depend on the location. In a garage, for example, the AHJ could make a case for 18" as that's where outlets generally live, but there is no lower limit that I'm aware of.

On Oct 21, 2014, at 9:02 PM, frenergy wrote:

Wrenches,

I can't seem to find a reference to the heights allowable for inverter installs, either minimum or maximum (need both). For that matter, AC combiners, DC discos, any switchgear related to the inverter(s).

Any help appreciated.

Bill
Feather River Solar Electric
solar powered since 1982
_______________________________________________
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html

List rules & etiquette:
www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
www.members.re-wrenches.org


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/3295424e/attachment.htm>
peter.parrish
2014-10-22 11:50:25 UTC
Permalink
As I remember, anything that needs to be inspected or manually operated needs to
be between 6'-6" and 2'-6".

- Peter

Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D.
SolarGnosis


> On October 22, 2014 at 12:28 AM Bob-O Schultze <bob-o at electronconnection.com>
> wrote:
>
> If it has some sort of switch or CB, the top of the handle cannot be higher
> than 6'7". As to the lower limit, I think that would depend on the location.
> In a garage, for example, the AHJ could make a case for 18" as that's where
> outlets generally live, but there is no lower limit that I'm aware of.
>
> On Oct 21, 2014, at 9:02 PM, frenergy wrote:
>
> Wrenches,
>
> I can't seem to find a reference to the heights allowable for
> inverter installs, either minimum or maximum (need both). For that matter, AC
> combiners, DC discos, any switchgear related to the inverter(s).
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Bill
> Feather River Solar Electric
> solar powered since 1982
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> <mailto:RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> <http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm>
>
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> <http://www.members.re-wrenches.org/>
>
>
>



> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141022/e643d6a7/attachment.htm>
Garrison Riegel
2014-10-22 18:11:20 UTC
Permalink
Bill,



See 2011 NEC 690.14(D) or 2014 NEC 690.15(A) Utility-Interactive Inverters Mounted in Not Readily Accessible Locations. Basically there is no maximum height restriction for inverters but there are a number of requirements for AC and DC disconnecting means. See NEC 404.8 for maximum disconnect height of 6? 7??although exception No. 2 may allow the disconnect to be accessible by portable means. I don?t know of any minimum height requirements in the code, although most (all?) string and microinverter manufacturers specify a required clearance below the inverter. I suppose that would be the minimum.



Garrison



Garrison Riegel

Project Manager | <http://www.solarserviceinc.com/> Solar Service Inc

[p] 847-677-0950 | <mailto:garrison at solarserviceinc.com> garrison at solarserviceinc.com



NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional?





From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of frenergy
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2014 11:02 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mounting height



Wrenches,



I can't seem to find a reference to the heights allowable for inverter installs, either minimum or maximum (need both). For that matter, AC combiners, DC discos, any switchgear related to the inverter(s).



Any help appreciated.



Bill

Feather River Solar Electric

solar powered since 1982

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141022/91c7143d/attachment.htm>
dan
2014-10-21 23:10:25 UTC
Permalink
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/e0f8c52a/attachment-0001.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: sigimg0
Type: image/png
Size: 25138 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/e0f8c52a/attachment-0002.png>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: sigimg0
Type: image/png
Size: 25138 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20141021/e0f8c52a/attachment-0003.png>
Mike Sullivan
2014-10-22 00:00:52 UTC
Permalink
Hi Dan,

I think the waveform problem Ray describes can most likely be resolved by installing a filter capacitor at the AC input terminals of the heat pumps. A small film cap (1 or 2 uF?) will function with the resistance and inductance of the branch circuit wiring to create a low-pass filter that will soften up those sharp edges of the 60 Hz waveform and provide a much cleaner zero crossing.

There's a huge difference between installing a small cap for filtering purposes and installing a large capacitor (or capacitor bank) to try and correct a lagging power factor. Might be worth a check-in with Outback tech support to get their blessing with this approach, but it should be a cheap and effective fix.

Cheers,

Mike Sullivan
Solar Design
Crestone, CO


> From: Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com>
> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting with Outback
> VFX Off Grid
> Message-ID: <54469693.9070706 at solarray.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> The Outback is not a perfect Sinewave. It still has tiny steps in the
> wave, and when electronics have a problem, its usually with the wave
> form as it crosses zero voltage . Instead of being instantaneous, it
> has a few milliseconds of time the wave is at the zero crossing, which
> can drive some electronics nuts. I don't understand the issue beyond
> that, but apparently the electronics use the zero crossing for timers
> and synchronizing, and they're looking for an instant "click", not a smear.
> Do the heat pumps work with the generator? Even though generators can
> have more harmonic distortion, they do usually have a clean zero crossing.
> If this is the case, I'm afraid I don't have a cure. We used to use
> capacitors, but Dan from Exeltech just poo pooed that fix in another
> recent thread, so I don't have any other tricks up my sleeve.
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>
>> On 10/21/2014 8:54 AM, dan at foxfire-energy.com wrote:
>> Anyone else had issues with Mitsubishi Mini Split heat pumps fighting
>> with Outback VFX off grid inverters? Everything is brand new. Outback
>> VFX7248, three separate heat pumps. The heat pumps shut down reporting
>> multiple / confusing input commands. The heat pump guys want to blame
>> the power system. I'm thinking bad Sushi. Thanks db
>>
>>
>> Dan Brown
>> Foxfire Energy Corp.
>> Renewable Energy Systems
>> (802)-483-2564
>> www.Foxfire-Energy.com <http://www.Foxfire-Energy.com>
>> NABCEP #092907-44
>>
Exeltech
2014-10-22 13:16:48 UTC
Permalink
This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.
Ray Walters
2014-10-22 21:56:53 UTC
Permalink
Just because its worked in the past for me doesn't always make it a good
idea. I appreciate having an actual inverter expert on our list to
caution us before we create a potential problem. One nice thing is that
we've never needed to "fix" an Exeltech sine wave output.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 10/22/2014 7:16 AM, Exeltech wrote:
>> We used to use capacitors, but Dan from Exeltech just poo pooed that fix
>> in another recent thread, so I don't have any other tricks up my sleeve.
>
> No poo. Just a cautionary comment. Capacitors connected across the output of an inverter can .. in some circumstances .. cause the voltage control loop to go crazy, resulting in unstable and unpredictable output voltage. Just how much capacitance would cause trouble depends on the inverter design, so I don't have a specific value in mind. And no .. it may not affect all inverters .. or may affect them differently Think of it as a "do it at your own risk" fix. If it works with one inverter, it may not work with another model and/or brand.
>
>
> Dan
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 10/21/14, Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mitsubishi Mini Split fighting with Outback VFX Off Grid
> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Date: Tuesday, October 21, 2014, 12:23 PM
>
> The Outback is not a perfect Sinewave. It still has tiny steps in the wave, and when electronics have a problem, its usually with the wave form as it crosses zero voltage . Instead of being instantaneous, it has a few milliseconds of time the wave is at the zero crossing, which can drive some electronics nuts. I don't understand the issue beyond that, but apparently the electronics use the zero crossing for timers and synchronizing, and they're looking for an instant "click", not a smear.
>
> Do the heat pumps work with the generator? Even though generators can have more harmonic distortion, they do usually have a clean zero crossing.
>
> If this is the case, I'm afraid I don't have a cure. We used to use capacitors, but Dan from Exeltech just poo pooed that fix in another recent thread, so I don't have any other tricks up my sleeve.
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
Loading...