Discussion:
(too old to reply)
David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
2002-07-16 21:53:09 UTC
Permalink
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger. The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system has
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights and a
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.

The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone. When
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the autotransfer
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the Iota
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.

The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that placing
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other as
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in the
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.

The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer versions
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.

Any thoughts?

Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services
2002-07-16 23:15:40 UTC
Permalink
I have heard of similar problems with other Exeltech HF switching inverters... I
guess that is one big advantage of the trace boat anchor approach using huge
transformers. I am surprised that the tech did not mention this interference is
a common problem with their style of inverter design.

I believe the only way to 'fix" it is to get another inverter. Live and learn...

Todd
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger. The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system has
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights and a
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone. When
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the autotransfer
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the Iota
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that placing
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other as
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in the
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer versions
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
William Miller
2002-07-17 04:30:20 UTC
Permalink
I have an off grid client with a recording studio:

-Started with a Heart Interface inverter. Lots of noise.

-Moved to an SW4024. Less noise.

-Tried a temporary connection to an Exletech 500. No noise (we had to shut
off the Heart even though nothing was connected to it--noise was radiating
from the interior wiring).

-Client purchased a StatPower 1800, no noise.

Noise proclivity varied from electronic device to electronic device. Most
susceptible were electric guitar pickups (passive devices, but effective
antennas).

William Miller
Post by Doug Pratt
Don't be in hurry to blame the HF inverter. How much interference you
see is greatly influenced by the quality of the filters on the
particular audio/video device. With the same HF inverter and different
TVs you may or may not get interference.
I've got an Exeltech XP1100 that I use for emergency power backup. It
plugs into my EV battery pack, and the funky City of Ukiah power grid
has given me ample opportunities to try it out. (10 hours on
Thanksgiving afternoon/evening a couple years ago) It doesn't affect my
Sony TV at all.
Cheers,
Doug Pratt
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services [mailto:toddcory at jps.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 4:16 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches]
I have heard of similar problems with other Exeltech HF switching
inverters... I guess that is one big advantage of the trace boat anchor
approach using huge transformers. I am surprised that the tech did not
mention this interference is a common problem with their style of
inverter design.
I believe the only way to 'fix" it is to get another inverter. Live and learn...
Todd
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an
Exeltech
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger.
The
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The
system has
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights
and a
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow,
and
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all
alone. When
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no
better
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to
the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When
the Iota
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the
inverter
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the
problem.
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each
other as
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a
wall
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box
in the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue
line
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be
added
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
__________________________________________________________________
William Miller
Miller Power and Communications
PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
Voice :805-438-5600 Fax: 805-438-4607 VMail: 805-546-4875
email: wrmiller at slonet.org
http://millerpowerandcomm.com
License No. C-10-773985
_____________________________________________________________
Compatibility:
Word processor: WP7
Spreadsheet: Quatro Pro 7
CAD: Microstation 95, DXF, Visio 4.1T
_____________________________________________________________
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."
H. L. Mencken
__________________________________________________________________

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
William Miller
2002-07-17 04:30:20 UTC
Permalink
I have an off grid client with a recording studio:

-Started with a Heart Interface inverter. Lots of noise.

-Moved to an SW4024. Less noise.

-Tried a temporary connection to an Exletech 500. No noise (we had to shut
off the Heart even though nothing was connected to it--noise was radiating
from the interior wiring).

-Client purchased a StatPower 1800, no noise.

Noise proclivity varied from electronic device to electronic device. Most
susceptible were electric guitar pickups (passive devices, but effective
antennas).

William Miller
Post by Doug Pratt
Don't be in hurry to blame the HF inverter. How much interference you
see is greatly influenced by the quality of the filters on the
particular audio/video device. With the same HF inverter and different
TVs you may or may not get interference.
I've got an Exeltech XP1100 that I use for emergency power backup. It
plugs into my EV battery pack, and the funky City of Ukiah power grid
has given me ample opportunities to try it out. (10 hours on
Thanksgiving afternoon/evening a couple years ago) It doesn't affect my
Sony TV at all.
Cheers,
Doug Pratt
-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services [mailto:toddcory at jps.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 4:16 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches]
I have heard of similar problems with other Exeltech HF switching
inverters... I guess that is one big advantage of the trace boat anchor
approach using huge transformers. I am surprised that the tech did not
mention this interference is a common problem with their style of
inverter design.
I believe the only way to 'fix" it is to get another inverter. Live and learn...
Todd
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an
Exeltech
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger.
The
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The
system has
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights
and a
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow,
and
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all
alone. When
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no
better
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to
the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When
the Iota
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the
inverter
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the
problem.
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each
other as
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a
wall
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box
in the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue
line
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be
added
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
__________________________________________________________________
William Miller
Miller Power and Communications
PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
Voice :805-438-5600 Fax: 805-438-4607 VMail: 805-546-4875
email: wrmiller at slonet.org
http://millerpowerandcomm.com
License No. C-10-773985
_____________________________________________________________
Compatibility:
Word processor: WP7
Spreadsheet: Quatro Pro 7
CAD: Microstation 95, DXF, Visio 4.1T
_____________________________________________________________
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."
H. L. Mencken
__________________________________________________________________

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
John Mottl
2002-07-17 00:26:34 UTC
Permalink
We have found that the Exeltec Inverters have in the past had poor filtering
on their inputs. Noise on the DC line either from a Trace inverter or other
source will cause these problems. The DC input noise will pass through the
Exceltec. This noise will only show up on the Exeltec inverter and not on
other inverters in the same system. There are DC input filters (expensive)
that we used to solve the problem with 1500 to 2500 watt Exeltecs. Your
problem could be elsewhere but... we have had what is described above happen
in the past. Contact me off list if you want to know more.
Cordially, John Mottl


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light" <ipl at sover.net>
To: "Wrenches" <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:53 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches]
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger. The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system has
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights and a
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone. When
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the autotransfer
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the Iota
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that placing
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other as
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in the
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer versions
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
2002-07-17 01:26:40 UTC
Permalink
<<I have heard of similar problems with other Exeltech HF switching
inverters... I
guess that is one big advantage of the trace boat anchor approach using huge
transformers. I am surprised that the tech did not mention this interference
is
a common problem with their style of inverter design.

I believe the only way to 'fix" it is to get another inverter. Live and
learn...

Todd>>

Except we have installed many other Exeltech inverters without this problem.
We have a small house that we rent out and we use an XP1100 12v there with
no interference and we have other 24v XP systems with no reported
interference.

David
IP&L
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger. The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system
has
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights and
a
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone.
When
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the
Iota
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other
as
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in
the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services
2002-07-17 04:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Was the TV/ Stereo RF input cable (coax) or through an antenna? The situation I
am familiar with had a external TV antenna that was picking up the inverter
"noise" which wiped out the TV signal they were after...

On the positive side, the TV did not buzz anymore like it did with the mod sine
wave inverter it replaced though so watching videos was improved.

Todd
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
Except we have installed many other Exeltech inverters without this problem.
We have a small house that we rent out and we use an XP1100 12v there with
no interference and we have other 24v XP systems with no reported
interference.
David
IP&L
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services
2002-07-17 04:36:44 UTC
Permalink
Was the TV/ Stereo RF input cable (coax) or through an antenna? The situation I
am familiar with had a external TV antenna that was picking up the inverter
"noise" which wiped out the TV signal they were after...

On the positive side, the TV did not buzz anymore like it did with the mod sine
wave inverter it replaced though so watching videos was improved.

Todd
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
Except we have installed many other Exeltech inverters without this problem.
We have a small house that we rent out and we use an XP1100 12v there with
no interference and we have other 24v XP systems with no reported
interference.
David
IP&L
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Doug Pratt
2002-07-17 01:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Don't be in hurry to blame the HF inverter. How much interference you
see is greatly influenced by the quality of the filters on the
particular audio/video device. With the same HF inverter and different
TVs you may or may not get interference.
I've got an Exeltech XP1100 that I use for emergency power backup. It
plugs into my EV battery pack, and the funky City of Ukiah power grid
has given me ample opportunities to try it out. (10 hours on
Thanksgiving afternoon/evening a couple years ago) It doesn't affect my
Sony TV at all.

Cheers,
Doug Pratt


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services [mailto:toddcory at jps.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 4:16 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches]

I have heard of similar problems with other Exeltech HF switching
inverters... I guess that is one big advantage of the trace boat anchor
approach using huge transformers. I am surprised that the tech did not
mention this interference is a common problem with their style of
inverter design.

I believe the only way to 'fix" it is to get another inverter. Live and
learn...

Todd
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an
Exeltech
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger.
The
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The
system has
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights
and a
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow,
and
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all
alone. When
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no
better
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to
the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When
the Iota
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the
inverter
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the
problem.
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each
other as
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a
wall
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box
in the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue
line
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be
added
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
jberdner
2002-07-17 01:52:26 UTC
Permalink
David:

You might try a common mode choke and a de-coupling capacitors at the dc
input to the inverter. Use a film type caps and keep this stuff as
close to the inverter as possible. You might need to add some big
electrolytic's in addition to the film cap on the battery side.

With #6 you might need a big core to get enough turns on it.
Use a ferrite core about 2.5 to 3" in diameter and make 5 or 6 wraps of
the positive around the core - let's say from the 10:00 to 2:00
position. Then do the same thing with the negative but at the 8:00 to
4:00 position.

IN ASCII DRAW:

B+ ------ ----- Inv+
| \0000/ |
CAP ( CORE ) CAP
| /0000\ |
B- ------ ----- Inv-

This will help clean up the dc side but you may still get some
interference from the ac side. If yes, then try a common mode choke on
the ac side as well but without the caps.

Hope this helps,

John Berdner



-----Original Message-----
From: David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light [mailto:ipl at sover.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:53 PM
To: Wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches]

We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an
Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger.
The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system
has
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights
and a
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.

The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone.
When
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to
the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the
Iota
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.

The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the
problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other
as
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a
wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in
the
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.

The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be
added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.

Any thoughts?

Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Ken Hulet, Engineering Services Co.
2002-07-17 02:15:58 UTC
Permalink
<x-flowed>
I'm surprised! I sold an 1100XP to a ham radio operator, he did his own install
not even close to code, and he's very happy with it. But I'm no radio/TV expert
so maybe there's something more forgiving in the ham radio?

Ken
On Tuesday, July 16, 2002, at 04:53 PM, David Palumbo, Independent Power
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone.
Ken Hulet
Engineering Services Co.
Blanchardville, WI
608.523.3726
http://www.revolutionearth.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================


</x-flowed>
Michael Welch, Home Power
2002-07-17 02:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Hey gang, the Exeltech rep. on the list, Dan Lepinski, is out of the country for a bit with his Wrench membership on hold, so you won't be hearing from him.
Post by John Mottl
We have found that the Exeltec Inverters have in the past had poor filtering
on their inputs. Noise on the DC line either from a Trace inverter or other
source will cause these problems. The DC input noise will pass through the
Exceltec. This noise will only show up on the Exeltec inverter and not on
other inverters in the same system. There are DC input filters (expensive)
that we used to solve the problem with 1500 to 2500 watt Exeltecs. Your
problem could be elsewhere but... we have had what is described above happen
in the past. Contact me off list if you want to know more.
Cordially, John Mottl
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light" <ipl at sover.net>
To: "Wrenches" <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:53 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches]
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger. The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system
has
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights and
a
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone.
When
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the
Iota
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other
as
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in
the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
Michael Welch

------------------------
"The true, unacknowledged purpose of capital punishment is to inspire fear and awe - fear and awe of the State."
Edward Abbey

Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com
Home Power magazine
www.homepower.com
To reach me: 707-822-7884
To reach Home Power: 800-707-6585

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Richard Perez, Home Power magazine
2002-07-17 18:02:45 UTC
Permalink
<x-flowed>
Hello Wrenches

We've used a variety of Exeltech inverters here for over eight years
now--SI series, XP series and the big MX series. In terms of RFI, the
Exeltechs are good as any and better than some....

We extensively use all types and frequencies of radio here-- VHF
radiotelephone, HF and VHF ham radio, FM stereo, broadcast TV, cell
phone, and AM broadcast radio. We currently have two Exeltechs
running 24/7, a 12 VDC XP1100 and a 24 VDC MX. We experience no
detectable RFI from these inverters.

Whomever mentioned that filtration in the particular radio device is
the key factor is entirely right. John's mention of a filter on the
DC cables feeding the inverter is right on--most RFI made by pure
sine wave inverters originates on the DC input cables. Use a choke or
make a twisted pair of the cables feeding the inverter. And of
course, physical separation helps--located all antennas and radio
gear as far from the inverter as possible.

Hope this helps.

Richard Perez N7BCR

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================


</x-flowed>
Ray Walters
2002-07-18 17:41:40 UTC
Permalink
Would you recommend trying longer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
cables of #4 with more turns?
We usually run #2 on the XP1100 series inverters. We've had great luck with
noise interference, the XP is our " holy hand grenade" for noise problems.
You can actually run as big as 2/0, but I thought the lugs were too close
to each other. Also, use a resettable breaker with the Exeltechs, they're
not as friendly as Trace products when overloaded. Try finding slo-blo 35
amp glass fuses sometime. That's what's inside the XP wired in parallel no
less, and they'll blow before the electronic overload protection starts
working under certain loads.
Also, I agree with everyone that the difference is the internal filtering
on the radio or TV itself. I had a customer with a Nakamichi Hi FI stereo
running on a DR Mod square wave inverter. Absolutely no noise at all. I
think an appliance change may be simpler and cheaper than the various
filters reccomended.

Ray

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Ray Walters
2002-07-18 17:41:40 UTC
Permalink
Would you recommend trying longer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
cables of #4 with more turns?
We usually run #2 on the XP1100 series inverters. We've had great luck with
noise interference, the XP is our " holy hand grenade" for noise problems.
You can actually run as big as 2/0, but I thought the lugs were too close
to each other. Also, use a resettable breaker with the Exeltechs, they're
not as friendly as Trace products when overloaded. Try finding slo-blo 35
amp glass fuses sometime. That's what's inside the XP wired in parallel no
less, and they'll blow before the electronic overload protection starts
working under certain loads.
Also, I agree with everyone that the difference is the internal filtering
on the radio or TV itself. I had a customer with a Nakamichi Hi FI stereo
running on a DR Mod square wave inverter. Absolutely no noise at all. I
think an appliance change may be simpler and cheaper than the various
filters reccomended.

Ray

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Richard Perez, Home Power magazine
2002-07-17 18:02:45 UTC
Permalink
<x-flowed>
Hello Wrenches

We've used a variety of Exeltech inverters here for over eight years
now--SI series, XP series and the big MX series. In terms of RFI, the
Exeltechs are good as any and better than some....

We extensively use all types and frequencies of radio here-- VHF
radiotelephone, HF and VHF ham radio, FM stereo, broadcast TV, cell
phone, and AM broadcast radio. We currently have two Exeltechs
running 24/7, a 12 VDC XP1100 and a 24 VDC MX. We experience no
detectable RFI from these inverters.

Whomever mentioned that filtration in the particular radio device is
the key factor is entirely right. John's mention of a filter on the
DC cables feeding the inverter is right on--most RFI made by pure
sine wave inverters originates on the DC input cables. Use a choke or
make a twisted pair of the cables feeding the inverter. And of
course, physical separation helps--located all antennas and radio
gear as far from the inverter as possible.

Hope this helps.

Richard Perez N7BCR

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================


</x-flowed>
William Miller
2002-07-17 04:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Kids:

We need to use appropriate subject lines. Without them, we haven't a ghost
of a chance of finding this information in the future. We will then repeat
ourselves even more than usual.

William Miller
Post by John Mottl
We have found that the Exeltec Inverters have in the past had poor filtering
on their inputs. Noise on the DC line either from a Trace inverter or other
source will cause these problems. The DC input noise will pass through the
Exceltec. This noise will only show up on the Exeltec inverter and not on
other inverters in the same system. There are DC input filters (expensive)
that we used to solve the problem with 1500 to 2500 watt Exeltecs. Your
problem could be elsewhere but... we have had what is described above happen
in the past. Contact me off list if you want to know more.
Cordially, John Mottl
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light" <ipl at sover.net>
To: "Wrenches" <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:53 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches]
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger. The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system
has
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights and
a
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone.
When
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the
Iota
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other
as
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in
the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
__________________________________________________________________
William Miller
Miller Power and Communications
PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
Voice :805-438-5600 Fax: 805-438-4607 VMail: 805-546-4875
email: wrmiller at slonet.org
http://millerpowerandcomm.com
License No. C-10-773985
_____________________________________________________________
Compatibility:
Word processor: WP7
Spreadsheet: Quatro Pro 7
CAD: Microstation 95, DXF, Visio 4.1T
_____________________________________________________________
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."
H. L. Mencken
__________________________________________________________________

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
2002-07-18 00:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Richard,
Thanks for your help (and to everyone else who has advised us on this
issue).

We already have twisted the battery cables but were only able to get three
turns on them because of their length. Would you recommend trying longer
cables of #4 with more turns?

Also, what exactly is a "choke"? Where do I purchase it and do I ask for a
specific size? I am electronically not the most experienced wrench. I have
heard of chokes before in terms of filtering but have no experience using
them myself. I do not see choke listed in the index of Basic Electricity and
Electronics, S. Matt. Are they known by another name?

It was good seeing Ian at SolarFest this past weekend.

Warmest regards,

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Perez, Home Power magazine
[mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:03 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Exeltech


Hello Wrenches

We've used a variety of Exeltech inverters here for over eight years
now--SI series, XP series and the big MX series. In terms of RFI, the
Exeltechs are good as any and better than some....

We extensively use all types and frequencies of radio here-- VHF
radiotelephone, HF and VHF ham radio, FM stereo, broadcast TV, cell
phone, and AM broadcast radio. We currently have two Exeltechs
running 24/7, a 12 VDC XP1100 and a 24 VDC MX. We experience no
detectable RFI from these inverters.

Whomever mentioned that filtration in the particular radio device is
the key factor is entirely right. John's mention of a filter on the
DC cables feeding the inverter is right on--most RFI made by pure
sine wave inverters originates on the DC input cables. Use a choke or
make a twisted pair of the cables feeding the inverter. And of
course, physical separation helps--located all antennas and radio
gear as far from the inverter as possible.

Hope this helps.

Richard Perez N7BCR

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Richard Perez, Home Power magazine
2002-07-18 16:27:59 UTC
Permalink
<x-flowed>
Hello David

I would not recommend extending the DC cables feeding the inverter in
order to have more twists between them. One key to good inverter
performance is low resistance in the input cables, so they should be
as short as possible.

A choke is just a transformer core (iron laminations) with a single
wire wound through it. Sort of a transformer with one continuous wire
in and out. What a choke does is smooth out the DC fluctuations on
the wire running through it by storing energy in the magnetic iron
core.

I suspect that you can't buy the choke you are looking for, you'll
have to homebrew it. Strip down a power transformer from an old large
TV set. Remove the wire that is in the transformer and wind as many
turns of large gauge wire (#4 or better) as you can into the
transformer's core. Insert one of these chokes in series with each of
the DC cables feeding the inverter.

On the whole, it may be easier, and cheaper, to replace the radio
gear that is experiencing RFI problems. Perhaps a newer model will
have better filtration and not be so noisy.

RFI is a tough problem to lick and I hope that this helps.

Richard
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
Richard,
Thanks for your help (and to everyone else who has advised us on this
issue).
We already have twisted the battery cables but were only able to get three
turns on them because of their length. Would you recommend trying longer
cables of #4 with more turns?
Also, what exactly is a "choke"? Where do I purchase it and do I ask for a
specific size? I am electronically not the most experienced wrench. I have
heard of chokes before in terms of filtering but have no experience using
them myself. I do not see choke listed in the index of Basic Electricity and
Electronics, S. Matt. Are they known by another name?
It was good seeing Ian at SolarFest this past weekend.
Warmest regards,
David
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================


</x-flowed>
Michael Welch, Home Power
2002-07-24 17:30:13 UTC
Permalink
This is a synopsis. I have a much more detailed reply I'll be happy to send to you if you contact me offline.
Hey gang. Dan and I were both surprised that NOBODY asked him for his "detailed reply." Did you all miss this at the bottom of his post?

Michael Welch

------------------------
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on."
Robert Frost

Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com
Home Power magazine
www.homepower.com
To reach me: 707-822-7884
To reach Home Power: 800-707-6585

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Michael Welch, Home Power
2002-07-24 17:30:13 UTC
Permalink
This is a synopsis. I have a much more detailed reply I'll be happy to send to you if you contact me offline.
Hey gang. Dan and I were both surprised that NOBODY asked him for his "detailed reply." Did you all miss this at the bottom of his post?

Michael Welch

------------------------
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on."
Robert Frost

Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com
Home Power magazine
www.homepower.com
To reach me: 707-822-7884
To reach Home Power: 800-707-6585

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Richard Perez, Home Power magazine
2002-07-18 16:27:59 UTC
Permalink
<x-flowed>
Hello David

I would not recommend extending the DC cables feeding the inverter in
order to have more twists between them. One key to good inverter
performance is low resistance in the input cables, so they should be
as short as possible.

A choke is just a transformer core (iron laminations) with a single
wire wound through it. Sort of a transformer with one continuous wire
in and out. What a choke does is smooth out the DC fluctuations on
the wire running through it by storing energy in the magnetic iron
core.

I suspect that you can't buy the choke you are looking for, you'll
have to homebrew it. Strip down a power transformer from an old large
TV set. Remove the wire that is in the transformer and wind as many
turns of large gauge wire (#4 or better) as you can into the
transformer's core. Insert one of these chokes in series with each of
the DC cables feeding the inverter.

On the whole, it may be easier, and cheaper, to replace the radio
gear that is experiencing RFI problems. Perhaps a newer model will
have better filtration and not be so noisy.

RFI is a tough problem to lick and I hope that this helps.

Richard
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
Richard,
Thanks for your help (and to everyone else who has advised us on this
issue).
We already have twisted the battery cables but were only able to get three
turns on them because of their length. Would you recommend trying longer
cables of #4 with more turns?
Also, what exactly is a "choke"? Where do I purchase it and do I ask for a
specific size? I am electronically not the most experienced wrench. I have
heard of chokes before in terms of filtering but have no experience using
them myself. I do not see choke listed in the index of Basic Electricity and
Electronics, S. Matt. Are they known by another name?
It was good seeing Ian at SolarFest this past weekend.
Warmest regards,
David
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================


</x-flowed>
Hugh Piggott
2002-07-18 07:16:04 UTC
Permalink
<x-flowed>
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
The television is picking up interference from our system.
did you try a different TV set? Could be a cheaper solution to the problem.
--
Hugh

visiting Edinburgh for a few days
http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk/

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================


</x-flowed>
Dan
2002-07-18 19:58:42 UTC
Permalink
Greetings Wrenches:

I've been nudged out of lurk mode to reply to the
recent series of interference-related postings.

Rather than turn this into a complex dissertation on
EMI (electro-magnetic interference) and RFI (radio
frequency interference) .. I'll do my best to cover
the specifics in a summary form, beginning with
Interference 101.

One of many sources of electronic interference occurs
when electricity is turned on or off very rapidly. To
achieve the inverter efficiencies we all desire, some
of the circuits spend their time either full on, or
full off, with as little time as possible spent in the
middle. It's the transitional region between those
two states that represents one of the larger causes of
loss in the circuits. Thus, in switching rapidly
between on and off, we create unwanted interference in
the process, which must then be reduced to FCC
mandated levels if we are to attain specific
certifications on the equipment.

Interference escapes from the equipment in two ways -
conducted (where power leads act as "pipes" between
the inverter and other electronic equipment) and
radiated, where the unit and connecting wires act as
antennas. Interference also encompasses frequencies
from very low (low audio range to a few hundred
kilohertz) to very high - well into the television
frequencies and beyond.

Solutions differ greatly for interference types and
frequency ranges. Conducted interference filters may
not do well on radiated signals. Filters for
low-frequency interference are generally ineffective
for high frequencies, and so forth. Subsequently,
combinations of filters must be utilized. To further
aggravate the situation, filters for the DC side must
deal with very high currents while posing minimal
voltage drop. This requires very large conductors,
which in turn make for some very unwieldy inductors
(coils).

That having been said .. it's a given that no two
situations are identical. Solutions aren't either.


In summary:

Keep all DC leads as short and heavy as possible.

Twisting DC leads together helps on some forms of
interference, but not all, It won't hurt to try, but
don't expect miracles. Tighter twists work better
than loose ones, but use care not to damage
insulation.

RF (radio frequency) filtering of the AC output leads
directly at the inverter AC output may be helpful in
some cases. There are countless sources listed on the
Internet. I found over 25,000 using "RFI" and
"filter" as search words.

TV reception in remote areas with a regular
(non-satellite) TV antenna MAY be helped in some
instances by the use of an antenna-mounted signal
amplifier; the use of coaxial cable for a feed line
(though it loses more signal than quality twin-lead);
locating the inverter and TV antenna as far from each
other as possible; separation of AC and antenna leads
(don't run the antenna lead alongside the extension
cord feeding the TV); use of better quality power
strips that have self-contained RF filtering; and
keeping in mind that some receivers (TV, AM/FM, or
otherwise) are more susceptible to interference than
others.

And finally .. keep in mind that no electronic power
device is interference free. Even with filtering,
some junk still gets out. If you or your customer are
in a very marginal signal level area, all the
filtering you can install may not be enough.
Remember, the interference must be reduced below
certain levels to attain certification - not
eliminated.

One big secret to all this is to keep the receiving
antennas as far as possible from the interference
source.

This is a synopsis. I have a much more detailed reply
I'll be happy to send to you if you contact me
offline.

Regards to all from Fort Worth...



Dan Lepinski
Sr. Engineer
Exeltech


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services
2002-07-16 23:15:40 UTC
Permalink
I have heard of similar problems with other Exeltech HF switching inverters... I
guess that is one big advantage of the trace boat anchor approach using huge
transformers. I am surprised that the tech did not mention this interference is
a common problem with their style of inverter design.

I believe the only way to 'fix" it is to get another inverter. Live and learn...

Todd
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger. The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system has
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights and a
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone. When
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the autotransfer
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the Iota
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that placing
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other as
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in the
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer versions
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
John Mottl
2002-07-17 00:26:34 UTC
Permalink
We have found that the Exeltec Inverters have in the past had poor filtering
on their inputs. Noise on the DC line either from a Trace inverter or other
source will cause these problems. The DC input noise will pass through the
Exceltec. This noise will only show up on the Exeltec inverter and not on
other inverters in the same system. There are DC input filters (expensive)
that we used to solve the problem with 1500 to 2500 watt Exeltecs. Your
problem could be elsewhere but... we have had what is described above happen
in the past. Contact me off list if you want to know more.
Cordially, John Mottl


----- Original Message -----
From: "David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light" <ipl at sover.net>
To: "Wrenches" <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:53 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches]
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger. The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system has
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights and a
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone. When
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the autotransfer
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the Iota
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that placing
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other as
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in the
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer versions
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
2002-07-17 01:26:40 UTC
Permalink
<<I have heard of similar problems with other Exeltech HF switching
inverters... I
guess that is one big advantage of the trace boat anchor approach using huge
transformers. I am surprised that the tech did not mention this interference
is
a common problem with their style of inverter design.

I believe the only way to 'fix" it is to get another inverter. Live and
learn...

Todd>>

Except we have installed many other Exeltech inverters without this problem.
We have a small house that we rent out and we use an XP1100 12v there with
no interference and we have other 24v XP systems with no reported
interference.

David
IP&L
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger. The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system
has
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights and
a
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone.
When
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the
Iota
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other
as
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in
the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Doug Pratt
2002-07-17 01:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Don't be in hurry to blame the HF inverter. How much interference you
see is greatly influenced by the quality of the filters on the
particular audio/video device. With the same HF inverter and different
TVs you may or may not get interference.
I've got an Exeltech XP1100 that I use for emergency power backup. It
plugs into my EV battery pack, and the funky City of Ukiah power grid
has given me ample opportunities to try it out. (10 hours on
Thanksgiving afternoon/evening a couple years ago) It doesn't affect my
Sony TV at all.

Cheers,
Doug Pratt


-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services [mailto:toddcory at jps.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 4:16 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches]

I have heard of similar problems with other Exeltech HF switching
inverters... I guess that is one big advantage of the trace boat anchor
approach using huge transformers. I am surprised that the tech did not
mention this interference is a common problem with their style of
inverter design.

I believe the only way to 'fix" it is to get another inverter. Live and
learn...

Todd
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an
Exeltech
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger.
The
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The
system has
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights
and a
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow,
and
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all
alone. When
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no
better
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to
the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When
the Iota
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the
inverter
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the
problem.
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each
other as
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a
wall
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box
in the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue
line
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be
added
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
jberdner
2002-07-17 01:52:26 UTC
Permalink
David:

You might try a common mode choke and a de-coupling capacitors at the dc
input to the inverter. Use a film type caps and keep this stuff as
close to the inverter as possible. You might need to add some big
electrolytic's in addition to the film cap on the battery side.

With #6 you might need a big core to get enough turns on it.
Use a ferrite core about 2.5 to 3" in diameter and make 5 or 6 wraps of
the positive around the core - let's say from the 10:00 to 2:00
position. Then do the same thing with the negative but at the 8:00 to
4:00 position.

IN ASCII DRAW:

B+ ------ ----- Inv+
| \0000/ |
CAP ( CORE ) CAP
| /0000\ |
B- ------ ----- Inv-

This will help clean up the dc side but you may still get some
interference from the ac side. If yes, then try a common mode choke on
the ac side as well but without the caps.

Hope this helps,

John Berdner



-----Original Message-----
From: David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light [mailto:ipl at sover.net]
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:53 PM
To: Wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches]

We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an
Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger.
The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system
has
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights
and a
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.

The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone.
When
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to
the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the
Iota
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.

The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the
problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other
as
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a
wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in
the
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.

The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be
added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.

Any thoughts?

Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Ken Hulet, Engineering Services Co.
2002-07-17 02:15:58 UTC
Permalink
<x-flowed>
I'm surprised! I sold an 1100XP to a ham radio operator, he did his own install
not even close to code, and he's very happy with it. But I'm no radio/TV expert
so maybe there's something more forgiving in the ham radio?

Ken
On Tuesday, July 16, 2002, at 04:53 PM, David Palumbo, Independent Power
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone.
Ken Hulet
Engineering Services Co.
Blanchardville, WI
608.523.3726
http://www.revolutionearth.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================


</x-flowed>
Michael Welch, Home Power
2002-07-17 02:28:41 UTC
Permalink
Hey gang, the Exeltech rep. on the list, Dan Lepinski, is out of the country for a bit with his Wrench membership on hold, so you won't be hearing from him.
Post by John Mottl
We have found that the Exeltec Inverters have in the past had poor filtering
on their inputs. Noise on the DC line either from a Trace inverter or other
source will cause these problems. The DC input noise will pass through the
Exceltec. This noise will only show up on the Exeltec inverter and not on
other inverters in the same system. There are DC input filters (expensive)
that we used to solve the problem with 1500 to 2500 watt Exeltecs. Your
problem could be elsewhere but... we have had what is described above happen
in the past. Contact me off list if you want to know more.
Cordially, John Mottl
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light" <ipl at sover.net>
To: "Wrenches" <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:53 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches]
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger. The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system
has
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights and
a
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone.
When
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the
Iota
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other
as
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in
the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
Michael Welch

------------------------
"The true, unacknowledged purpose of capital punishment is to inspire fear and awe - fear and awe of the State."
Edward Abbey

Michael Welch, michael.welch at homepower.com
Home Power magazine
www.homepower.com
To reach me: 707-822-7884
To reach Home Power: 800-707-6585

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
William Miller
2002-07-17 04:23:30 UTC
Permalink
Kids:

We need to use appropriate subject lines. Without them, we haven't a ghost
of a chance of finding this information in the future. We will then repeat
ourselves even more than usual.

William Miller
Post by John Mottl
We have found that the Exeltec Inverters have in the past had poor filtering
on their inputs. Noise on the DC line either from a Trace inverter or other
source will cause these problems. The DC input noise will pass through the
Exceltec. This noise will only show up on the Exeltec inverter and not on
other inverters in the same system. There are DC input filters (expensive)
that we used to solve the problem with 1500 to 2500 watt Exeltecs. Your
problem could be elsewhere but... we have had what is described above happen
in the past. Contact me off list if you want to know more.
Cordially, John Mottl
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Palumbo, Independent Power & Light" <ipl at sover.net>
To: "Wrenches" <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 2:53 PM
Subject: [RE-wrenches]
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
We recently installed a small off grid 24v PV system utilizing an Exeltech
XP1100 sine wave inverter and an Iota DLS 24v 25 amp battery charger. The
system also has an Iota automatic generator transfer switch. The system
has
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
245 ahrs of battery storage and is grounded according to our standard
procedures.
It is installed in a small home that previously operated on gas lights and
a
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
small generator (Honda 3k inverter gen) for TV, microwave etc.
The television is picking up interference from our system. With the TV
powered by the inverter it has some audible static and visual snow, and
diagonal lines that were not there when the Honda ran the TV all alone.
When
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the generator is run (without battery charger for now), and the
autotransfer
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
switch loads the gen with the TV, the TV picture and sound are no better
until the inverter is actually shut off. At this point we are back to the
original TV picture and sound before our system was installed. When the
Iota
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
battery charger is on the TV is at its worse state of picture and
interference.
The tech help at Exceltech suggested that the 6 foot run to the inverter
using #6 AWG cable (1% voltage drop at 1,000 watts)is too far, that
placing
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
the inverter directly on top of the batteries would clear up the problem.
This we just can't do although we did twist the cables around each other
as
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
also suggested. No relief. The inverter is seperated from the TV by a wall
and by a distance of 16'. The batteries are located in a battery box in
the
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
same large room as the TV and are 14' away.
The tech help at Iota offered that earlier models of the charger had
interference issues but that these had been addressed in the newer
versions
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
(we are told that we have a newer version as indicated by the blue line
under the Iota model number). It was suggested that a jumper wire be added
between the DC negative input to the charger and the ground terminal
(creating a ground loop). Again, no relief.
Any thoughts?
Barry Shaw
Independent Power & Light
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
Hosted by Home Power magazine
Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
__________________________________________________________________
William Miller
Miller Power and Communications
PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
Voice :805-438-5600 Fax: 805-438-4607 VMail: 805-546-4875
email: wrmiller at slonet.org
http://millerpowerandcomm.com
License No. C-10-773985
_____________________________________________________________
Compatibility:
Word processor: WP7
Spreadsheet: Quatro Pro 7
CAD: Microstation 95, DXF, Visio 4.1T
_____________________________________________________________
"Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."
H. L. Mencken
__________________________________________________________________

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
2002-07-18 00:55:40 UTC
Permalink
Richard,
Thanks for your help (and to everyone else who has advised us on this
issue).

We already have twisted the battery cables but were only able to get three
turns on them because of their length. Would you recommend trying longer
cables of #4 with more turns?

Also, what exactly is a "choke"? Where do I purchase it and do I ask for a
specific size? I am electronically not the most experienced wrench. I have
heard of chokes before in terms of filtering but have no experience using
them myself. I do not see choke listed in the index of Basic Electricity and
Electronics, S. Matt. Are they known by another name?

It was good seeing Ian at SolarFest this past weekend.

Warmest regards,

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Perez, Home Power magazine
[mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com]
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 2:03 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Exeltech


Hello Wrenches

We've used a variety of Exeltech inverters here for over eight years
now--SI series, XP series and the big MX series. In terms of RFI, the
Exeltechs are good as any and better than some....

We extensively use all types and frequencies of radio here-- VHF
radiotelephone, HF and VHF ham radio, FM stereo, broadcast TV, cell
phone, and AM broadcast radio. We currently have two Exeltechs
running 24/7, a 12 VDC XP1100 and a 24 VDC MX. We experience no
detectable RFI from these inverters.

Whomever mentioned that filtration in the particular radio device is
the key factor is entirely right. John's mention of a filter on the
DC cables feeding the inverter is right on--most RFI made by pure
sine wave inverters originates on the DC input cables. Use a choke or
make a twisted pair of the cables feeding the inverter. And of
course, physical separation helps--located all antennas and radio
gear as far from the inverter as possible.

Hope this helps.

Richard Perez N7BCR

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Hugh Piggott
2002-07-18 07:16:04 UTC
Permalink
<x-flowed>
Post by David Palumbo, Independent Power &amp; Light
The television is picking up interference from our system.
did you try a different TV set? Could be a cheaper solution to the problem.
--
Hugh

visiting Edinburgh for a few days
http://www.scoraigwind.co.uk/

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================


</x-flowed>
Dan
2002-07-18 19:58:42 UTC
Permalink
Greetings Wrenches:

I've been nudged out of lurk mode to reply to the
recent series of interference-related postings.

Rather than turn this into a complex dissertation on
EMI (electro-magnetic interference) and RFI (radio
frequency interference) .. I'll do my best to cover
the specifics in a summary form, beginning with
Interference 101.

One of many sources of electronic interference occurs
when electricity is turned on or off very rapidly. To
achieve the inverter efficiencies we all desire, some
of the circuits spend their time either full on, or
full off, with as little time as possible spent in the
middle. It's the transitional region between those
two states that represents one of the larger causes of
loss in the circuits. Thus, in switching rapidly
between on and off, we create unwanted interference in
the process, which must then be reduced to FCC
mandated levels if we are to attain specific
certifications on the equipment.

Interference escapes from the equipment in two ways -
conducted (where power leads act as "pipes" between
the inverter and other electronic equipment) and
radiated, where the unit and connecting wires act as
antennas. Interference also encompasses frequencies
from very low (low audio range to a few hundred
kilohertz) to very high - well into the television
frequencies and beyond.

Solutions differ greatly for interference types and
frequency ranges. Conducted interference filters may
not do well on radiated signals. Filters for
low-frequency interference are generally ineffective
for high frequencies, and so forth. Subsequently,
combinations of filters must be utilized. To further
aggravate the situation, filters for the DC side must
deal with very high currents while posing minimal
voltage drop. This requires very large conductors,
which in turn make for some very unwieldy inductors
(coils).

That having been said .. it's a given that no two
situations are identical. Solutions aren't either.


In summary:

Keep all DC leads as short and heavy as possible.

Twisting DC leads together helps on some forms of
interference, but not all, It won't hurt to try, but
don't expect miracles. Tighter twists work better
than loose ones, but use care not to damage
insulation.

RF (radio frequency) filtering of the AC output leads
directly at the inverter AC output may be helpful in
some cases. There are countless sources listed on the
Internet. I found over 25,000 using "RFI" and
"filter" as search words.

TV reception in remote areas with a regular
(non-satellite) TV antenna MAY be helped in some
instances by the use of an antenna-mounted signal
amplifier; the use of coaxial cable for a feed line
(though it loses more signal than quality twin-lead);
locating the inverter and TV antenna as far from each
other as possible; separation of AC and antenna leads
(don't run the antenna lead alongside the extension
cord feeding the TV); use of better quality power
strips that have self-contained RF filtering; and
keeping in mind that some receivers (TV, AM/FM, or
otherwise) are more susceptible to interference than
others.

And finally .. keep in mind that no electronic power
device is interference free. Even with filtering,
some junk still gets out. If you or your customer are
in a very marginal signal level area, all the
filtering you can install may not be enough.
Remember, the interference must be reduced below
certain levels to attain certification - not
eliminated.

One big secret to all this is to keep the receiving
antennas as far as possible from the interference
source.

This is a synopsis. I have a much more detailed reply
I'll be happy to send to you if you contact me
offline.

Regards to all from Fort Worth...



Dan Lepinski
Sr. Engineer
Exeltech


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes
http://autos.yahoo.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================
Continue reading on narkive:
Loading...